View Full Version : Upgrading from a Sammy 709 to a Toshiba SD210E,is it worth it?
deftone666
01-10-2001, 21:27
I'm looking to change my player for a Toshiba SD210E and was wondering how much of a difference I'd notice in picture quality and sound.Anyone got a Toshiba to comment on?
daz_bolton
01-10-2001, 21:33
Hi, cant comment on the Samsung, but Ive got a mregion 210E and the quality of picture is tremendous. Excellent output options for 'future proofness'. Only negative I can give it is that it doesn't include an NTSC/PAL converter, but not a problem if you've got a TV capable of displaying NTSC (or your happy to shell out £50 to Maplins for a converter)
Regards,
Daz.
deftone666
01-10-2001, 21:40
Cheers daz and welcome to the forums.
deftone666
I have done exactly what you plan and I am delighted with the tosh. The picture quality is light years in front of the sammy and with more features (mp3 etc) The box feels a lot more plasticky than the sammy, I guess a result of the price cut. Also, for me the real advantage is the component out formy telly. (Although I ran it through scart for a while and it is still far superior to the sammy).
The main advantage is you can chuck that stupid remote/joystick in the bin. Go for it!
deftone666
02-10-2001, 18:39
Devil,
Been and got one today ( a touch of buyers remorse,I now have 2 DVD players,3 if you count my PC:eek: ) but I am very happy with it.Just gave it the Gladiator test and its passed with flying colours!
BTW if anyones interested its £169 from The Electro Centre in Birmingham Multi Region and RCE friendly.Bit of a bargain methinks!
Shingster
02-10-2001, 18:52
Just thought I'd back up your post with a link (http://www3.netspin.co.uk/electrocentre/) to Electro Centre's web page.
deftone666
02-10-2001, 19:42
Cheers Shingster, your mate who is buying the telly would be wise to call these before he gets it. Went over there today and they've got a mountain of AV kit for the right money.
My mate at work reckons they must buy from the continent cus they're so cheap,which is kinda backed up by the photo copied UK manual I got with my new player.
Strange????:confused:
Just had a look at that website and all three Toshiba models are the same price at £169.
210 Black, 210 Silver and 110?
Anyway certainly is a good price for this excellent machine. I paid £199 plus P&P elsewhere for mine 3 months ago - although it is definately a modded UK machine.
Think these must be import ones as AFAIK you can't get black UK versions.
Whooo! £169 for Tosh SD210... Does anyone know if I'd have any problems if they are imported ones? Would there be any power supply issues, etc?
I think the only problem will be the warranty. You won't have any official warranty but Electro centre I think will be responsible for it in the coming years.
Originally posted by shlunk
Whooo! £169 for Tosh SD210... Does anyone know if I'd have any problems if they are imported ones? Would there be any power supply issues, etc?
Yeap, the 210e is imported at EC:) The 110s are not. I.E black is only available in europe, not UK. In terms of warranty, does not make much difference, except if it goes back to the dealer for repair, Toshiba UK won`t touch it and it might take longer for repair then normal.
Flanners
04-10-2001, 22:13
You gits, I have just ordered one! After reading some reviews this must be a good player, it gets What Hi-fi's Best award for budget player and thats at £230!
Cool my Sammy 709 will be rlegated to the Tv downstairs and the Tosh will noe be in the 'cinema'!
Cool, now to pay the Visa bill!
deftone666
04-10-2001, 23:04
Flanners,I take it you haven't got it yet? I've watched 2 films since picking it up Tuesday, Gladiator and North By Northwest and I'm really impressed by it.The sound is a lot better than the Sammy,the picture pin sharp and the MP3 feature (if you've got the facilities) is excellent,I even accidentally found that it will display the file name of the song its playing!
How much did you pay for it and where from?
Flanners
05-10-2001, 22:21
Followed your advice and got it from the link above. Ordered it today. How long does it take to get here, quick I hope as I want to get my mitts on it!
Alegol1983
05-10-2001, 23:06
This thread makes for interesting reading...
...'cos Leading Edge shipped my 210e today :).
deftone666
06-10-2001, 07:25
No idea on how long they take to deliver cus I only live about half an hour away so I drove there myself.These things were to the ceiling being packed for mail order though,give 'em a ring.
Alegol1983
06-10-2001, 10:37
Well, if you order from Leading edge before 4pm you should get it the next day, excluding weekends.
Flanners
08-10-2001, 20:57
The player arrived this evening and my what an amazing player it is to!!
Wees all over my old Sammy 709 (which I have had for well over 2 yrs)!
The picture is stunning crystal clear, the big difference to me is the audio it feels so real thro my Yamaha amp, it adds new depth to films. Very very impressive and for 169quid an absolute bargain.
Cheers geezers
Alegol1983
08-10-2001, 21:11
Funnily enough, my 210e arrived from LEading Edge this moring...
...but I have to wait for my Tosh' TV to arrive on Wednesday before I can give it a good whirl.
Brian Blessed Badger
09-10-2001, 10:55
OK then - what's the m/region hack like - auto/manual/macrovision ?
Phil
Alegol1983
09-10-2001, 14:10
Well, I dunno how it handles RCE discs (I know it DOES play them somehow though) 'cos I don't have any RCE discs.
Macrovision I also am unsure about, I think mine still has it but I couldn't say for certain unless I wired it through my VCR.
Got mine from down the road at leconcepts and it handles everything I have thrown at it. RCE no problem, R0,1,2,3,4 no problem and Macrovision disabled although my video is crap as it makes all my NTSC discs b&w:(
Brian Blessed Badger
09-10-2001, 15:40
ok - is the region hack automatic (ie does it for you), manual (ie you do it) or both ?
Am looking at upgrade heaven/ec/lec and flogging the 709 at the moment
Phil
puddleduck
09-10-2001, 17:36
I've got a Leading Edge mod. in my Pioneer 737 and its fantastic. No RCE issues, but you can always manually select regions just in case.
I think this "mod" is actual official Multi-Region firmware supplied by Pioneer, rather than a dodgy chip soldered to the PCB.
Flanners
09-10-2001, 18:30
Multi-region hack is automatic put the disc in and off she goes.
I cannot believe the difference this player is to the Sammy, an excellent buy at an excellent price.
Next up a 43" widescreen RP TV!
Oh god Visa hell.
Buy the 210 you will not regret it!!!
How does the MP3 feature work? If you burn some mp3's onto a cdr will it play them?
Alegol1983
09-10-2001, 22:12
Well, that was one of the few things I was able to mess around with (not being able to connect it to a TV and all...) and it seemed to work fine.
The MP3 manual/leaflet thingy I got with it mentions that it has trouble with CR-RW's (CD-R's are fine, of course) so I'll be trying out a CD-RW soon.
deftone666
09-10-2001, 22:23
Originally posted by Alegol1983
Well, that was one of the few things I was able to mess around with (not being able to connect it to a TV and all...) and it seemed to work fine.
The MP3 manual/leaflet thingy I got with it mentions that it has trouble with CR-RW's (CD-R's are fine, of course) so I'll be trying out a CD-RW soon.
Is there any chance of a scan of your MP3 leaflet,I had nowt with mine concerning MP3's and although I've sussed it I wouldn't mind seeing it.
Alegol1983
09-10-2001, 22:43
Sure Deftone, that'll be no problem at all.
I'll try and get it done either tomorrow or on Thursday and I'll email it to you.
deftone666
09-10-2001, 23:02
Your a star,cheers.
Originally posted by AndySymbian
I've got a Leading Edge mod. in my Pioneer 737 and its fantastic. No RCE issues, but you can always manually select regions just in case.
I think this "mod" is actual official Multi-Region firmware supplied by Pioneer, rather than a dodgy chip soldered to the PCB.
Nope, its a modded firmware image, not a chip. Pioneer don`t supply the image, its down to dealers like ourselves or Techtroncis to develop the code. Then to "recover" development costs, its "resold" as a solution to other dealers like lec to mod their own players. Some "dealers" still chip them (buy in the chips pre-programmed, or program them themselves), the only way you would know if the machine had been chipped or not is to physically open it and check the flash TSOP ram, but LEC are NOT one of these dealers;)
Alegol1983, any chance of sending me a scan too please. I just got mine today from Electro Centre and i am very impressed so far with it picture and especially sound wise. :)
Alegol1983
10-10-2001, 22:38
Sure thing.
Check yer inbox's guys.
Is there an actual 'switch on and you can instantly tell' difference in picture and sound quality between the 709 and the Tosh - I have always wondered what the difference was between the 709 and newer, better players.
Originally posted by john316
Is there an actual 'switch on and you can instantly tell' difference in picture and sound quality between the 709 and the Tosh - I have always wondered what the difference was between the 709 and newer, better players.
For me, yes, with the sound quality it hit me within 5 seconds but the picture takes a little more viewing to realise that it is a lot better.
I always thought that you can have the crappiest DVD player in the world and the best in the world - but if they feed into the same amp - then DD and DTS will sound the same because the amp handles it all. There goes that theory - what is different about the sound - is it just more alive?
More detail, better seperation and in 5.1 a far greater sense of being surrounded by the sound. Iirc the differing sound quality of DVD players is down to the disc transport and stability, if thats wrong then i'm sure someone will be happy to correct me :) .
deftone666
11-10-2001, 20:18
Originally posted by Paul.B
More detail, better seperation and in 5.1 a far greater sense of being surrounded by the sound. Iirc the differing sound quality of DVD players is down to the disc transport and stability, if thats wrong then i'm sure someone will be happy to correct me :) .
No,thats exactly what I thought,the seperation is miles ahead of the Samsung,trust me,I was reluctant as anyone to replace my 709 but boy am I glad I did.
Alegol1983
11-10-2001, 20:27
A further plus to the 210e is that it plays CD's, in my humblest of opinions, very well.
...and yes, I am comparing it to a "proper" Hi-Fi
Flanners
11-10-2001, 20:57
Been off work the last couple of days, have now completely re-calibrated my set-up, with a meter, measure all the distances delay time etc. Have had all my faves on the player and it is just great, I am very pleased with it, the sound is much better than the Sammy I found the surround effects on the 709 rather lack lustre they are booming on this player.
Again, I am well chuffed.
Jon Weaver
12-10-2001, 09:06
I am getting excited.
Like all 709 owners, I was pretty sure that the sound was fine.
Like most of the people here, I also believed that DD/DTS sound was dependant on the amp, not on the player.
But, I have always thought that the rear sound was somewhat lacking!
I will be getting a Pioneer 545 today.. If what you say is true and the rear sound gets more impressive then I will be dead chuffed!
If only i had known.. I would have upgraded months ago!
Sammy709Sony930
12-10-2001, 13:24
I very much doubt that the DVD Player makes any difference to
the rears!
After all, it only passes the bitstream from the disc to your amp!
Watching this thread with interest though, as after seeing my dad get a 210e and my brother in law get a 444, I've got upgraditis. Only downside is I'd have to change my account name!:D
Jon Weaver
12-10-2001, 17:37
So I guess that means that you have a 709 and Sony STRDB930..
Same as me.. Well, atleast I did have until today.
I am still sceptial about how a change in DVD player can make a difference to the sound.
But the theory is that newer DVDs may be better able to extract the bitstream from the disk.
I guess I will find out later, if my new player arrived I guess.
Flanners
13-10-2001, 07:55
I have done a back to back test using Star Wars Episode 1. The sound on my new Tosh is far superior to the 709 it feels more impactive and has greater depth and clarity. It could be 'cos I just payed £170 for the new player, but I am not so sure.
I have noticed the layer change is sometimes awful on this player though, about a 2 second freeze up! This does not bother me massively but it is worth bearing in mind.
Nick dVl
13-10-2001, 12:26
I'm always surprised when I hear people saying "this player sounds better than that one". The fact is that the bitstream is passed directly from the disc to your amp with no intervention from the player. Do you realise how expensive a player would be if it decoded the DD/DTS first, fooled with the sound, and then re-encoded the stuff back into a DD/DTS bitstream in real-time?!?
It is also a complete and utter nonsense that it "depends on the disc transport". If the transport was dodgy, you'd get break-ups in the sound and picture, especially from a highly compressed source such as a DVD (CDs are another matter).
I reckon it's all in people's heads - but that's just my opinion.
Originally posted by Nick dVl
I'm always surprised when I hear people saying "this player sounds better than that one". The fact is that the bitstream is passed directly from the disc to your amp with no intervention from the player. Do you realise how expensive a player would be if it decoded the DD/DTS first, fooled with the sound, and then re-encoded the stuff back into a DD/DTS bitstream in real-time?!?
It is also a complete and utter nonsense that it "depends on the disc transport". If the transport was dodgy, you'd get break-ups in the sound and picture, especially from a highly compressed source such as a DVD (CDs are another matter).
I reckon it's all in people's heads - but that's just my opinion.
So why when you read any review of a dvd player do they rate picture and sound ?
Jon Weaver
13-10-2001, 15:28
I have just rigged up my Pioneer 545 and done a quick test.
I must say that my inital impressions are that there does appear to me more sound from the rear!
I am willing to accept that I am imagining this, and its a bit of 'wishfull thinking', but on face value, it does look like the sound has improved!
But, the Player must have some influence over the sound, after all, the 709 has a 'Dynamic Range Compression' option which certainly changes the sound.
Flanners
13-10-2001, 22:17
I am not an audiophile, however I find it hard to believe that the player does not have any influence over sound? I have two CD players one in a midi system the other a seperate CD player the seperate CD player is far superior(played through the identical set-up!).
If the player has no influence then we should all stop wasting our hard earnt cash and settle for an Alba, Murphy or Hinari or such like????
Jon Weaver
14-10-2001, 13:00
Flanners,
The debate doesnt' extend into CD players.. Its clear that you can get good and better sound by spending more money.
The point of this debate is that as the DD/DTS bitstream is just pulled off the disk and not processed in any way by the player.. People (including) myself doubt that the sound quality in a DD/DTS enviroment could be dependant on the player.
If the DVD player was doing the D/A convertion onboard and providing the audio signal as analogue (like a CD player does), then yes.
But 99% of us connect their players to our Amps via digital connections. The sound is then dependant on the quality of the digital bitstream and the quality of the amp.
We are just using the DVD player as a 'transport'
Its unlikely that a expensive DVD player could do any better a job of extracting the digital stream off of the disk than a cheap player.
Jon Weaver
16-10-2001, 13:35
There definatly is some truth to there being more rear sound.
I can't get over how much more comes out of the rears!
I even had to turn the volume of the rear channel down because it was too loud.
The rears when using my 709 were more like effects spearkers.. WIth the Pioneer, they are more like channels.
I can't explain how, but there is definatly an improvement!
Nick dVl
22-10-2001, 11:38
Well, I'm completely baffled if that is the case....makes me wonder now what I'm missing on my trusty 709:confused:
The Dynamic Range thing is just a flag bit on the DD data packets that the 709 can surpress if required. It depends on the disc whether the actual data packets have that bit present in the first place. The actual sound data is not affected as such (but as you've pointed out, I could be completely wrong!)
puddleduck
22-10-2001, 20:11
A player can make no different to a DTS / DD5.1 bitstream.
The only time you'd notice a difference is using analogue output (ie playing CD's), or when the player downsamples from DD5.1 to Dolby Surround. A player can't alter a bitstream in anyway - its not processed by the player, its merely output.
I went from a Samsung 709 to a Pioneer 737 and they was and is no difference in the volume from the rears, or any difference in sound quality from a bitstream.
Pyscho-acoustics I'm afraid chaps... :(
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