View Full Version : DTS - sound cutouts?
The subject says it all really.
5.1 works fine on my Pioneer VSX-709RDS.
DTS starts off working fine but after about 10 minutes the sound keeps cutting out for a fraction of a second a few times EVERY minute.
I have to listen in 5.1 to avoid the sound cutouts.
Has anyone experienced this problem or have a solution?
John Hodson
15-10-2001, 19:08
Only on a Wharfedale/Yamaha AV-1 setup; ditched the Wharfedale.
However, I do recall someone with a similar problem (and a different player/amp set-up) who swapped out digital co-ax for optical and sorted it that way. Of course, it could have been a dodgy co-ax...
---
So many films, so little time...
Are the discs half bit rate DTS, if so it could be the decoders problem as a few decoders use a certain DTS decoder chip that can't cope with halfbit rate DTS
My Pioneer receiver is connected by a digital optical cable, not co-ax to my Wharfedale 750-S
Gladiator (R2) and Cast Away (R1) are the main problems, particularly Cast Away which has more cutouts than is bearable. Gladiator worked fine for the whole opening battle but then the sound cutouts came in?
I only tested Chicken Run (R2) in DTS for a short while but did not notice any sound cutouts. How can you tell if they are haflbit rate (a stupid question but I don't know how)?
can you switch the amp to DTS only input rather than auto detect this has been known to cure the problem before.
Cheers Carl
Paul Buglass
16-10-2001, 20:30
Rhys,
This is a commom problem with some Wharfedale 750S players.
I have had it happen with both Optical and Co-ax connections with my Yamaha DSP A5 amp.
Sometimes a DTS DVD will play fine, other times is suffers the drop-outs every few minutes.
I've had it happen with the following DTS discs :-
Chicken Run, Gladiator, Titan AE, Sheryl Crow (full rate DTS), Castaway, T2 UE, Mummy Returns R4, U571, Unbreakable, basically every DTS disc I own!
I've tried my 750S with another amp and a different DVD player with my amp and isolated the fault to my 750S.
Some people have reported it is a temperature related effect. If your 750S is out of warranty why not try taking the cover off (being careful to stay clear of the mains supply and keep any kids and animals away too) and see if this eliminates the problems. I've not tried this before but it could explain why my player is often OK, and I have noticed this often happens later at night when the heating is off or the Sun has gone down. Could point to an overheating problem with the DTS decoder circuitry?
Hope this helps.
Best wishes
/Paul B, York, UK.
Thanks for all that useful info Paul.
It certainly appears to be the 750S considering they will play fine sometimes and terribly at other times.
I was testing T2 UE today about midday in DTS and it was playing fine for the whole time of 30 mins.
I think there is quite a bit of static from the 750S because if you lightly move your hand over the top it vibrates quite a bit:eek:
The overheating theory sounds a real possibility - this might explain why DTS starts off fine but as the movie progresses it begins to set in.
Paul Buglass
17-10-2001, 07:09
Yep, One of these days I'm going to get round to taking the cover off and if that seems to permanently fix the DTS problem, I'll put a quiet PC fan on the righthand side of the cover and add a grill on the left. It should be quiet and cool inside that way.
Only problem is I have to find the time :-( , which is hard these days.
Best wishes,
/Paul B, York, UK.
tigurrgh
17-10-2001, 18:44
please let us know if the fan cures the problem, I'm just dying to hear SPR in DTS and Shawshank Redemption in 5.1!
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Tigd
OK i was about to post a thread about this very same problem.
Firstly i don't think it is just Wharfdale that suffers the problem
I have three players at my disposal
Phillips 701 (my main player)
Samsung 807 (however it lacks DTS output)
LGB, or something like that. it was a cheap crap one from the shopping channel but it has DTS output)
OK here goes. I have a Digitheatre DTS and i experience cutout/clips on a few of my DTS movies on BOTH players. Hooked up via a co-ax lead, i haven't bought an optical and i don't know wether i should
The titles in question are Cast Away, Meet the Parents and the Mexican. I have just watched the Mexican and the clipping was driving me up the wall. I haven't watched Gladiator in DTS yet so i can't comment although i have tested the first battle and that sounded fine, likewise i haven't had a problem with T2:UE
I have my doubts about the heating theory people have suggested, that's not to say it isn't viable, but i'll give you a run down of what happens with the Mexican.
The opening score suffers from terrible clipping as soon as the film starts. Bear in mind i have only just started the player. I originally thought it could be a problem with the volume but i can tell you all the loud fx, guns, lorries cars and what have you sound amazing. It's only when the score kicks in that i hear the clipping. Bearing in mind the music of the film is a lot quieter than the action heavy effects. This is also noticable on Cast Away in that i get clipping only when the music kicks in.
Why should loud effects be fine and music score suffers???
So this cannot be a volume/player/heating problem right??
Could it be that it is because these are american discs were playing?, has anyone had trouble with any r2 titles.
I really would like to get to the bottom of this as it defeats the purpose of having a DTS set-up if i can only watch in DD.
What are people thoughts on my dillemma????
I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem.
I haven't had a problem on T2:UE (R1) either.
Cast Away is the biggest offender on the cutouts for me.
The sound cutouts did occur in Gladiator R2 for me.
I'm going to test a bit the all my DTS discs with a "cold" player and see what exactly happens when and when.
I'll start off with Chicken Run (R2) tomorrow and post my results!
There were 2 sound dropouts in DTS Chicken Run (R2) which I played today. They were at:
18:20
59:55
Still 2 more than there should be though.
I guess that's my r1 theory out the window then.
Can anyone confirm that it's not nessecarily high volume that causes the clipping/cut out.
I'm still stumped that all the action fx in T2 is fine but a couple of notes of the score from Cast Away sends the cutouts loopy?????:confused:
Tony Keats
18-10-2001, 19:37
I used to have the exact same problem myself (with a Digitheatre DTS). Terminator 2 was fine like you say (although the THX intro was "clicky" at the densely-filled end), so perhaps you have the same problem.
My Sub (which receives the signal) was apparently out-of-spec and adhered to the text-book "old-style" of decoding. Things have moved on since the early-days and the method of encoding (not the eventual audio quality) is now slightly different and I'd imagine more economic somehow.
Now, that previous paragraph is based on supposition and some vague communication I received from Videologic themselves, but they did at least admit that their product was to blame for the drop-out.
I'm not sure if this information applies to you though Rhys and it's possible that your set-up has an entirely different flaw. There are only two bit-rates for DTS AFAIK though, 754.5kbps (half) and 1509kbps (full). You can count the full-rate titles on the finger of one hand TBH, so I'd forget the half-rate theory. Galaxy Quest is a full-rate DTS track and that was "faulty" in the same way you both describe.
T2 was fine, Road Trip was fine until the last ten minutes, Gladiator was okay for a good half-an-hour and then had occasional glitchy moments, I "think" Saving Private Ryan was okay too (it was a while ago now so I can't be sure). So if this sounds familiar to you robby (especially the THX tester), then you may have one of the earlier versions of the decoding hardware.
I e-mailed VL and described the fault (support@videologic.com), they arranged to have my sub picked-up and then sent a replacement a few days later. Whether you have to pay for delivery or not depends on who answers your request (I guess I got lucky!). Like I say, it was a long while ago, so they might not be quite so helpful. I'd give it a shot if I was you though.
BTW.. I sold the Digitheatre recently (and upgraded to separates). Thankfully I've had no similar problems yet!.
Hi Tony
That sounds interesting. Come to think of it the THX logo did cutout towards the end.
I'll get onto Videologic and see what they say. Don't like the idea of paying for a replacement or delivery but i guess these things have to be done.
Thanks
Rhys do you think that could also be the problem with your reciever?
I have a Sammy 709 hooked upto a Sherwood 6106 DTS amp with a 5m Co-Ax lead with gold plated connectors - Gladiator R2 and T2 R1 both play back perfectly in DTS!
This certainly sounds like older technology could be the problem. I'm going to give Pioneer a ring to see what they have to say.
I've just gotten off the phone with Videologic and they admitted my problem is to do with a bug in my subwoofer. They have agreed to come and pick it up on Thursday which is great all at no extra cost. All i need to do now is find a damn cardboard box as i threw mine out.
Rhys hopefully Pioneer will be as helpful as Videologic have been. Good Luck
Tony Keats
19-10-2001, 21:33
Rhys, after reading through this whole thread again, I think it's worth pointing out that your amp might not be to blame.
Someone else mentioned that the Wharfdale 750 is associated with these DTS flaws and it's possible that your player is sending out a half-baked signal (in a similar vein to the incompatibility issues associated with the early digitheatres). This is even more likely when you consider how many incarnations of the Wharfie there have been (not to mention the various upgrades that have been made available).
The first run of the 750 reportedly didn't support DTS at all (and didn't claim to), but then the back-end of production started outputing the signal (but still didn't claim to and wasn't badged with the DTS logo). The 750s does have the logo, but the machine has been associated with various other flaws and there have been several different versions of this machine aswell. If you tried a different player with your amp, you could prove/disprove this theory quite easily.
It's almost certainly an unorthodox DTS delivery/conversion (somewhere along the line) because you say the fault is more severe on specific titles. If it was an overheating problem then obviously it wouldn't matter which disc happened to be playing.
Actually, I've been having similar problems with my Lecson 900 dvd when playing DTS films.
I first noticed it when i was playing Gladiator (r1). It was around 45mins through that it started to happen and then every few minutes it would 'click'. I switched to 5.1 and it worked ok.
I didn't think too much of it until I had the same problem with Dances with wolves (r2) Saving Private Ryan(r1) on DTS. I've been meaning to try to sort this out but I've been a lazy arse.
I've got a Sony 940 amp bought this year.
Incidently, Debenhams are sending me out a CD firmware upgrade for my DVD next week. I don't know what it's gonna fix though.
z
Tony Keats
20-10-2001, 11:32
Originally posted by zpos
Actually, I've been having similar problems with my Lecson 900 dvd when playing DTS films.
Tut! How many others have been suffering in silence?!.
Yeah Doc, I'm real sorry I've been suffering on my own here. Took me a whole lot of courage to come and own up. Please don't diss me! :P
I don't suppose anyones got any suggestions to solve my non-medical ailments?
DVD player or AMP? Can anyone confirm whether there Lecson 900 or Sony 940 works ok in DTS?
z
Same problems with my previous Lecson DVD900 and DTS titles (using a Yam RXV596RDS).
Not noticed anything with my replacement Lecson but I'll dig out Cast Away R1 (easily the worst offender) and give it a whirl shortly....
Uncle Spanky
20-10-2001, 17:12
I'm almost certain that the Lecson 900 has the same hardware as the Wharfedale 750S, so that might account for something.
However, my 750S and Yamaha VS-10 setup seems to be fine, and I have a fair amount of DTS R1 discs.
dwsadler1
21-10-2001, 10:28
I had the same DTS dropout problem with my old Wharfedale 750S - Yamaha A5 amp setup. I solved it by taking the Wharfedale back to Tescos and buying a Toshiba SD210. This solved the DTS dropout problem and had the extra benefit of being a much better DVD player!
sideshowbob
21-10-2001, 10:48
I used to get sound drop outs (in DD) between my Samsung 709 and my Tosh TV using a standard phono for digital connection. Replacing it with a dedicated digital lead solved that problem.
Also had problems with lip synch drifting terribly on Saving Private Ryan DTS (not on the surround track) when playing it through my Samsung 709 and Yamaha DSP E800. Had no such problem when I swapped the player for a Samsung 511 or indeed when I swapped that for a Pioneer 737.
It's the players that seem to cause the problems in the main.
John Hodson
21-10-2001, 18:12
Rhys - I had five (count 'em) 750S Wharfedale and one plain old 750; the 750 played DTS discs fine, but all the S models had the DTS drop-outs (and so did a pal's BTW).
The drop-outs could not be predicted (sometimes they started right away - even from cold - sometimes they took up to 45 minutes to kick in), and they affected every DTS disk I own. They happened with optical and co-ax leads and on different Yamaha amps. It drove me nuts!
Tesco (bless 'em) tried to repair the problem, but gave up because Wharfedale could not supply their engineers with even the most basic technical info, allegedly to cut costs. Eventually, after trying five machines, they gave me a full refund, even though I had had the original player for several months and had no receipt, or box.
As I said, since my switch to the LG (exactly the same leads and set-up) there have been no problems. My advice - give it up and ditch the Wharfie.
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So little time, somany films...
Originally posted by Tony Keats
I e-mailed VL and described the fault (support@videologic.com), they arranged to have my sub picked-up and then sent a replacement a few days later. Whether you have to pay for delivery or not depends on who answers your request (I guess I got lucky!). Like I say, it was a long while ago, so they might not be quite so helpful. I'd give it a shot if I was you though.
Just out of curiousity Tony how long did it take for them to fix your sub and send it back?. It's typical i buy a bunch of movies and i have to give up my sub:( It's been a long time since i watched a movie in *Stereo*:( :(
Originally posted by sideshowbob
I used to get sound drop outs (in DD) between my Samsung 709 and my Tosh TV using a standard phono for digital connection. Replacing it with a dedicated digital lead solved that problem.
Also had problems with lip synch drifting terribly on Saving Private Ryan DTS (not on the surround track) when playing it through my Samsung 709 and Yamaha DSP E800. Had no such problem when I swapped the player for a Samsung 511 or indeed when I swapped that for a Pioneer 737.
It's the players that seem to cause the problems in the main.
I had a similiar problem with my Wharfedale 750s and Kenwood 5050 amp. I'd originally connected them with a 50ohm audio cable, and had random dropouts on DD, I bought a proper 75ohm cable and haven't had the problem since.
laura
Are we talking coaxial here?
I've currently got a optical cable between my lecson and sony 940. I could try a coaxial connection I guess....or i could borrow one.....nah that won't work, I convinced everyone to go for optical!
/me drags his feet to the ATM.
z
Tony Keats
24-10-2001, 01:21
Originally posted by robby
Just out of curiousity Tony how long did it take for them to fix your sub and send it back?. It's typical i buy a bunch of movies and i have to give up my sub:( It's been a long time since i watched a movie in *Stereo*:( :(
If I remember rightly... it was picked up on a Friday and returned just over a week later (on a Tuesday). In actual fact, it may even have been the first Tuesday just four days after it was taken, but I'm not really sure TBH (either way it seemed like an eternity!). Know what you mean about stereo, every time there's an explosion or something, you can't help feeling short-changed. You'll just have to grin and bear it for now though (patience is a virtue!).
Thankfully, it IS worth the wait in the end. It's great to be able to enjoy a DTS track without the usual "will it/won't it" distraction.
ProgressiveScan
24-10-2001, 09:27
Originally posted by Rhys
My Pioneer receiver is connected by a digital optical cable, not co-ax to my Wharfedale 750-S
Gladiator (R2) and Cast Away (R1) are the main problems, particularly Cast Away which has more cutouts than is bearable. Gladiator worked fine for the whole opening battle but then the sound cutouts came in?
I only tested Chicken Run (R2) in DTS for a short while but did not notice any sound cutouts. How can you tell if they are haflbit rate (a stupid question but I don't know how)?
Ah, I'd read R2 Gladiator has a half-bitrate dts soundtrack (it's definitely lower than the R1 version) - so that might be your prob.
There are plenty of disc analysis program's available at vcdhelp.com, but you'll have to check it in a PC-DVD.
Just to add my 2p summary of my experiences and previous threads on the forums:
My experience
Wharfie 750S both DD5.1 and DTS have occasional 'randomly positioned' dropouts when the temperature is hot.
I 'proved' this by various additional cooling into the cabinet in which my AV gear rests.
e.g. SW extra disc last night in DD5.1 - dropouts after about an hour getting steadily more frequent to about 1 in 2 minutes. Took out a couple of piles of DVDs in the cabinet and opened door.
Steadily dropout frequency dropped.
Three hours in and repeated same mini-documentaries with no dropouts.
Videologic definitely admitted to DTS problems in early machines and got alot of kudos here for admitting and swiftly repairing anyone's kit at minimal inconvenience (occasional horror stories of unsatisfactory service, but in general good)
Other amps also seem to have possible problems with DTS decoding of odd bitrates or intense action - usually dropouts will occur always at the same place.
Also in a similar vein one or two discs seem to have a manufacturing glitch that have resulted in consistent problems.
Some discs have damage or smudges that cause incorrect decoding so possible sound (and vision) glitches. Doesn't happen on other players because more resilient to smudges. (I find my particular wharfedale to be a bit sensitive to smudges and scratches though other people have found different with the same type of 750S)
Coax cables - good quality ones with snug fitting connectors are OK, but well-worn or poor fitting may be suspect (you don't need to buy an expensive cable, just take care of it)
Optical - slightly more critical to have it fitted properly but less chance of interference from nearby kit (mains-induced or whatever)
I've jsut watched Minorty Report in DTS on my Wharfdale 750S and I have also noticed this problem. IS there any way around it?
Yeah, I still haven't done anything about this yet either! In fact I thought this was a new thread and was about to add my problem to it. It seems I already have done so some time ago!
Do we know whether its an amp problem or a dvd player problem? I have a Sony 940 amp and a Lecson 900 dvd. Both my items are still under warranty but I can see each one blaming the other for the problem!
Any advice appreciated.
z
DTS tracks are working no problem now I have got a Pioneer 454, the Wharfedale 750S has been given to my parents who don't have an amp, so no probs for them.
Originally posted by zpos
Do we know whether its an amp problem or a dvd player problem? I have a Sony 940 amp and a Lecson 900 dvd. Both my items are still under warranty but I can see each one blaming the other for the problem!
Any advice appreciated.
z
Almost certainly a DVD player problem. But its the first time I have encoutered it.
dtsrules
12-01-2003, 21:53
zpos
Dts tracks are fine on my sony 940.
Tony: Just played Minority Report on an LG player through my Videologic DTS and the sound drops out on the beginning titles, think it happened with Lord of the Rings as well. I've got a Tosh 220 as well, i'm gonna try the VL DTS with that tomorrow when my new tv comes.
If I need to emaill VL, is it just the sub they take away? and does it matter how old the system is? I've done a bit of home modifying on my speakers so hope its only the sub that they need.
Cheers Tony
Baz
The Icebun
13-01-2003, 10:36
Same problem here with a 750S/Yamaha DSP-A5 combo.
Happens randomly - noticed it on Gladiator especially.
Will be replacing the player this year probably anyway. For the money it's been a good player.
gobstopper
13-01-2003, 13:23
Originally posted by Baz126
If I need to emaill VL, is it just the sub they take away? and does it matter how old the system is? I've done a bit of home modifying on my speakers so hope its only the sub that they need.
Yes, it is only the sub they need to fix.
As to how old - AFAIK my fix was done under the 2 year manufacturer's warrantly. If yours is older than that, I can only suggest asking them and seeing what they say about it.
Tony Keats
14-01-2003, 03:08
It was literally years ago now, but I was never asked to provide any sort of documentation when dealing with Videologic. After convincing them that the fault was a decoding problem, they just arranged the pick-up right away and didn't ask any further questions. So, based on my experience, I think just owning the gear will be enough. It might well depend on who you speak to though and, of course, VL may have changed their policy over time anyway...
As gobstopper says, the sub is the only part of the set-up that needs to be upgraded, so there's no reason to send them the other stuff. The sub won't necessarily return on its own though!, as sometimes they generously add some 'spares' to the return package. In my case, I just got the sub back, but I've read where people have been lucky enough to get a nice new remote and some extra speakers aswell. I know Robby got some unexpected freebies with his package...
Yeah, i sent off my sub for 'repair' but it looks like i got a whole new sub as it had a different logo on the front. Also got another decoder, remote and another bag full of wires and connectors. Basically the whole set again minus the 4 speakers.
Sorry i've not read much on what's happened lately, i will do when i get a chance to back track. All i can suggest ( or re-iterate) is to get in touch with VL be it by email or phone.
They were/are second to none when i told them about my drop outs who arranged to get it picked up and sent back at no extra charge.
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