View Full Version : Toshiba's HD-A1 - first impressions...
John Hodson
19-04-2006, 09:01
Over at 'The Bits' Bill Hunt has been testing the Toshiba's HD-A1, see here (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents) - he does say:
The construction of Toshiba's HD-A1 is fairly solid - not as good as my Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi DVD player, for example, but still better than most other entry level players. Setup is very easy and intuitive...
...The other major downside is the time it takes the player to get into operating mode. When you first turn on the player itself, it takes a full minute to boot up into a usable configuration. You can't even open the disc tray during that time. Very irritating...
...In terms of backwards compatibility, the player seems to handle existing DVDs and CDs well. Its upconversion of standard definition DVD video is quite good, but still not quite as good as my Pioneer DV-59AVi, at least on first impression...
Now for the software. Universal's Serenity is basically a port of the existing DVD release, simply with the film in high-definition video and Dolby Digital Plus 5.1 audio...Still, the picture quality is absolutely spectacular - vibrant color, fantastic contrast and VERY few compression or processing artifacts (and if you watch a lot of broadcast HD video, you've no doubt seen a lot of those). It's just utterly clean and clear without being too crisp or edgy - a very natural looking and extremely pleasing image. I knew it was going to be impressive, but I'm still surprised at the sheer improvement over regular DVD, at least when viewed in a very large projection format....
...Warner's discs also include a promotional flyer touting some 50 titles that are coming for Summer 2006 to the format from the studio, including The Matrix, Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines, Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, The Shawshank Redemption, Batman Begins, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Troy and The Dukes of Hazzard: Unrated.
There's some also some impressions here (http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058).
His basic conclusion is that the picture is marginally better than a standard upscaling dvd player!
ShakeyJake
19-04-2006, 10:32
There's some also some impressions here (http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0058).
His basic conclusion is that the picture is marginally better than a standard upscaling dvd player!
Well he is only watching standard DVDs on it, so that would make sense :p
Well he is only watching standard DVDs on it, so that would make sense
Missed that bit! :p
John Hodson
19-04-2006, 11:13
Well he is only watching standard DVDs on it, so that would make sense :p
While Bill Hunt says that his upscaling Pioneer is better with SD DVDs. Still not too convinced, that at normal viewing distance, that this will startle anyone with a display of less than 50" - if you've got a PJ, then I reckon it's probably a must have.
si2k2000
19-04-2006, 11:20
But surely this should be judge on its performance with HD DVDs as SD DVD are only going to be so, I mean you can only polish a turd so much ;) .
It's got 1GB of PC2700 RAM inside. :nuts:
ShakeyJake
19-04-2006, 16:22
Blimey what's it need that for?
$500 seems quite cheap.
Not that the exchange rate will convert to the UK price :D
$500 seems quite cheap.
Not that the exchange rate will convert to the UK price :D
And quite possibly a $500 paper weight if blu-ray wins.
Blimey what's it need that for?
Stop it crashing I expect.
It'll probably be used for interactive stuff and possibly layer change buffering
Tom Whitaker
19-04-2006, 18:31
Just reading that if you hit the menu button during the film, a menu overlays over the film itself, so you'd be able to skip scenes, change soundtracks etc, with the film playing. Sounds cool. Would that use RAM? :)
It would use RAM perhaps but I don't agree it sounds cool. I don't see any advantage in doing that.
ShakeyJake
19-04-2006, 21:06
XBMC does that on the Xbox, kind of.
It's got 1GB of PC2700 RAM inside. :nuts:
Thats nothing these days, has a retail value of about £50
Grandmaster
20-04-2006, 05:35
It would use RAM perhaps but I don't agree it sounds cool. I don't see any advantage in doing that.
It shows off the Java-like scripting language used in the authoring, and for the user it gives the feel of a more seamless experience. BluRay can do/will do exactly the same thing.
Normal DVD is a bit of a duffer for interactivity elements - it essentially allows for subtitles to be overlaid over a video stream, combined with a few system registers for storing variables. DVD can only handle one video stream at a time - this is not an issue at all for the new formats.
Both of the programming languages that power the interactivity elements of BluRay and HD-DVD are very powerful, to the point where full games far superior to the 'iDVD' games will be able to be developed for both.
Yeah, I realise that, I'm just saying I don't see the advantage of having the menus overlayed on the film. It's not like you're going to care about the film when you're looking for the scene/extra you want.
Having said that I've seen a video and in some ways it's quite nice. Like you say it makes it a bit more seemless, a bit slicker. Straight into the film, rather than take the focus away with some grainy looking menu. It's just that I'm expecting something a bit more advanced and of course we may not have some of the cool animated menu things they have on DVD
John Hodson
21-04-2006, 09:13
Update from Bill Hunt (see the link in the first post), some interesting comments that echo what others have said here. Snippet:
All of this goes to my point, which is this: HD-DVD looks and sounds fantastic... just as we all expected it would. I have little doubt that Blu-ray Disc will look and sound just as good too - not better than HD-DVD mind you, but every bit as good. But how good does the video and audio quality REALLY have to get for most people to enjoy a film in their living rooms? Standard DVD looks and sounds great just as it is - it was a MASSIVE improvement over VHS and laserdisc. And the better your equipment is (and keep in mind that most people still haven't upgraded to widescreen HDTVs, upconverting DVD players and true multi-channel surround sound), the average experience of DVD is going to keep improving. There's tremendous value to be found in existing DVD, just as it is, and that will continue to be the case for years to come. So how many people are REALLY going to care enough to upgrade to a new high-definition videodisc format? How about TWO high-definition videodisc formats? Not that many, I'll bet.
powermac
21-04-2006, 13:27
I bet that within a year there will be a single player that plays both hd-dvd and blue-ray. Just like DVD +R & -R.
Spectre07
21-04-2006, 19:46
Update from Bill Hunt (see the link in the first post), some interesting comments that echo what others have said here. Snippet:
All of this goes to my point, which is this: HD-DVD looks and sounds fantastic... just as we all expected it would. I have little doubt that Blu-ray Disc will look and sound just as good too - not better than HD-DVD mind you, but every bit as good. But how good does the video and audio quality REALLY have to get for most people to enjoy a film in their living rooms? Standard DVD looks and sounds great just as it is - it was a MASSIVE improvement over VHS and laserdisc. And the better your equipment is (and keep in mind that most people still haven't upgraded to widescreen HDTVs, upconverting DVD players and true multi-channel surround sound), the average experience of DVD is going to keep improving. There's tremendous value to be found in existing DVD, just as it is, and that will continue to be the case for years to come. So how many people are REALLY going to care enough to upgrade to a new high-definition videodisc format? How about TWO high-definition videodisc formats? Not that many, I'll bet.I reckon HD-DVD will become the SACD of the film world.
I bet that within a year there will be a single player that plays both hd-dvd and blue-ray. Just like DVD +R & -R.
LG are supposed to be doing one.
Haven't Samsung announced one as well?
The link below has a vid of the inside of the HD-A1
http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx
It's also got a Pentium 4 2.4GHz inside. :nuts:
Grandmaster
22-04-2006, 13:55
:lol:
Awesome. The internal pics of the player here (http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showtopic=566106#entry5945198) are solid gold. It would be fantastic if you could upgrade your player simply by copying the USB flash memory from the higher spec unit :nuts:
I'm really tempted to get one just for the :dork: factor. This Toshiba unit is region free, is it not?
I wonder what happens if you upgrade to 2GB? :lol:
This Toshiba unit is region free, is it not?
Yes and No. It's region free now but that's because there's no decision on the region thing. They'll probably force you to update it if they do decide to use regions.
I wouldn't touch this one though, if it's not a white elephant, it's still a buggy, horrible product. Waiting for another player or for the bugs to be fixed on this one would be the smart move.
The link below has a vid of the inside of the HD-A1
http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx
It's also got a Pentium 4 2.4GHz inside. :nuts:
It's got a Mobile P4 2.5GHz inside and is based on an Intel 854 Chipset. Video decoding is handled by a Broadcom BCM7411D.
thescrounger
24-04-2006, 00:22
I wouldn't touch this one though, if it's not a white elephant, it's still a buggy, horrible product. Waiting for another player or for the bugs to be fixed on this one would be the smart move.
What bugs does it have?
What bugs does it have?
Well first of all it takes around 2 minutes for the player to actually start playing the disc! Then there are reports of players crashing, freezing and locking up. The remote doesn't respond to button presses frequently.
This might be fixed with a firmware update, but it's impossible to say
Also, the player is locked to Region 1 for DVD's which is fine if you've only got R1 DVD's otherwise you'll have to keep your DVD player for other regions.
samchode
24-04-2006, 13:24
reports suggest the chroma bug via hdmi - but connection via component seems ok :shrug:
thescrounger
24-04-2006, 19:55
This might be fixed with a firmware update, but it's impossible to say
I would imagine it will.
Roughneck
25-04-2006, 09:08
Well first of all it takes around 2 minutes for the player to actually start playing the disc! Then there are reports of players crashing, freezing and locking up. The remote doesn't respond to button presses frequently.
Personally not had any of these issues at all. Although the remote is crap...
HD Discs take about a min to load up.
Spectre07
25-04-2006, 22:21
The Digitals Bits expereince of the Toshiba player isn't smooth saling:
'So guess what? We'd planned to get our reviews of Serenity, The Last Samurai and The Phantom of the Opera up on Friday... then Saturday... then today. But it hasn't happened yet. It's certainly not for lack of trying or serious effort, believe me. It's because we've encountered some significant issues during the process. First of all, we continue to have a problem with movie software freezing for a few moments during playback, after which it continues playing but without audio, or with out-of-sync audio. It's happened on every movie disc we've tried now, at least once per film (and sometimes more often).
The other thing we've discovered is that the quality and character of the 1080i video that the Toshiba player delivers from its digital HDMI and component analog outputs is very different. The analog output features significantly enhanced color saturation and contrast levels over the HDMI, which SHOULD be more accurate. The difference is not minor, and we're trying to figure out exactly what it means and why it's happening. '
Whoops, Blu Ray for the win!
thescrounger
29-04-2006, 14:18
Whoops, Blu Ray for the win!
Bluray will probably be riddled with just as many problems. If not more.
1 min to play a disc, are they having a laugh? Is that only when you turn on the machine or every time oyu change the disc? Why so long? If that'd due to the decrpytion keys it'll suck. DVD-Audio takes ages to skip each track on my Pioneer 747A.
fattyboombatty
02-05-2006, 13:18
Then there are reports of players crashing, freezing and locking up. The remote doesn't respond to button presses frequently.
yup, that sounds like a toshiba, alright. :(
John Hodson
03-05-2006, 09:08
A round-up of their Tosh HD experience at The Bits:
"So... I'll tell you, we're just over two weeks into the official HD-DVD launch, and we're having really mixed feelings about the format right now here at The Bits. First of all, the HD-A1 we've managed to borrow temporarily for our review work is just a total lemon. As we've reported before, it repeatedly locks up during playback - completely locks up, including non-responsive controls - forcing you to have to unplug the unit and plug it in again to reboot it. When the unit doesn't completely lock up, we get frequent instances where the video stutters and freezes for a moment, after which time the audio is no longer in sync. Both of these problems aren't getting any better and that (along with the fact that it takes about a minute and a half to get the HD-A1 back into playback mode with discs each time you reboot) has really made it difficult to review the movie software effectively. About half of the readers who own the HD-A1 that we've heard from thus far are reporting similar problems, while the fortunate other half say their units are bug-free. We envy you bug-free folks.
"...Our own experience with HD-DVD here at The Bits has been a decidedly mixed bag thus far, and the reviews we've seen elsewhere in the press, along with the reports of our own readers who have purchased players and discs, seem to corroborate this. I'm not ready to declare the HD-DVD format launch a disaster... but it's been significantly less smooth than we (and, I suspect, the HD-DVD camp - despite enthusiastic press statements to the contrary) might have hoped, and far less smooth than the current DVD format's launch was back in March of 1997.
"Somewhere out there, I suspect the Blu-ray Disc folks are smiling like the cat that ate the canary...
zantarous
04-05-2006, 16:55
I wonder how many units are like that, I find it hard to believe that half the units could be like that surely it must just be a small faulty batch. Because it sounds like a machine that buggy should never have made it to the shelves, I hope Blu Ray is watching an learning from this, all they have to do at present is make sure there first unit actually works properly.
Napoleon
06-05-2006, 15:28
Here is a fairly in-depth review of the HD-A1Info (http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/read.php?ID=21310)
John Hodson
09-05-2006, 09:29
Again from The Bits: ...it seems that reports that Toshiba's HD-A1 is basically just a home theater PC are true. Erstwhile geek-with-blog Lorin Thwaits recently decided to dismantle his HD-A1 (http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx) to see what makes it tick, and inside he found a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4 CPU, a bunch of PC2700 DDR RAM memory and other off-the-shelf parts - pretty much everything but a mini-Windows XP OS (the machine actually runs Red Hat Linux and boots off an internal flash drive). No wonder it takes a full minute to start up. Click the link above for all the geek you can handle.
thescrounger
09-05-2006, 10:28
Just thought this was worth quoting from another thread:
I have the player and it is worth much more than what I paid for it even if I never play an HD disc in it (however I will of course). It upconverts better than any player on the market. That alone far outweighs the "bugs" (which are being exaggerated by the way). The main negative for me is it's lack of position memory (when you take the disc out of the tray). But that's a minor inconvenience when faced with such a staggering improvement (with the SD discs) in clarity. I believe this is an aspect which is overlooked: How well will these players play your existing DVDs? Anybody who has an HDMI input would be foolish not to buy it if they had the chance, if nothing else then for this reason alone. Maybe Blu-ray will upconvert equally as well but that remains to be seen...but why spend twice as much? The Toshiba HD-A1 is a FINE machine and they (alone) won't be able to keep up with demand.
at the end of the day, if I wanted a HTPC then I'd build one - the reason I buy consumer electronics is so I don't have to cope with the foibles of PCs, boot time included.
When is this actually being launched over here?
Grandmaster
14-05-2006, 13:57
Nice avatar there Dan :lol:
Sprout Crumble
15-05-2006, 13:38
Bluray will probably be riddled with just as many problems. If not more.
Probably right. And at double the price.
If the Tosh is basically a PC, the firmware updates and operating enhancements should be a cinch.
My own view is that the whole format war is going to be a slow and painful spectacle to watch with, in all likelihood, no clear winner. Its a shame that Sony felt the need to screw over the potential of a hi-def format by fracturing the standardisation on a single type. But then thats Sony. :oh-hum:
Just thought this was worth quoting from another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceames
I have the player and it is worth much more than what I paid for it even if I never play an HD disc in it (however I will of course). It upconverts better than any player on the market. That alone far outweighs the "bugs" (which are being exaggerated by the way). The main negative for me is it's lack of position memory (when you take the disc out of the tray). But that's a minor inconvenience when faced with such a staggering improvement (with the SD discs) in clarity. I believe this is an aspect which is overlooked: How well will these players play your existing DVDs? Anybody who has an HDMI input would be foolish not to buy it if they had the chance, if nothing else then for this reason alone. Maybe Blu-ray will upconvert equally as well but that remains to be seen...but why spend twice as much? The Toshiba HD-A1 is a FINE machine and they (alone) won't be able to keep up with demand.
We need to know what bruceames is comparing the Toshiba HD with - if his old player was a cheapie DVD machine (ie under £100 - I'm not saying it is) then the Tosh would definitely play SD a lot better. But is it actually far better in comparison to high-end Arcams and Denons ? If it were, that would be a real selling point. Haven't heard anyone make those claims yet, though.
thescrounger
15-05-2006, 16:11
Well the fact that it's basically a PC would explain why it's upscaling is so much better than your avergae, and even good quality DVD player.
bruceames
16-05-2006, 05:40
I must confess that my other DVD players are not high-end. But I did pose the question in another forum.
http://www.hddvd.org/messageboard/topic/10/22589/
Here's a comment in another thread:
"I have the Oppo player with $300 SDI mod and imo the Toshiba play does a better job of upscaling. I wish I had known that before I had the Oppo modded. The upscaling of the player is worth the price alone and the fact that it also is a HD player is just another plus aimo."
I made the claim partly based on that and my own experience compared with what I had heard about what to expect from upscaling. If there is a player that upscales better, I stand corrected. As Scrounger says, just the fact that it's a PC could explain it's performance. For me the difference is not subtle, it jumps out at you, and everyone I know of is more than happy with their player.
Grandmaster
09-06-2006, 11:05
Bruce Ames posted this on the hddvd.org forum, so I thought I'd save him the bother of reposting here :D
An article from HDBeat on the firmware update leak:
Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player firmware upgrade leaked
Posted Jun 2nd 2006 9:19PM by Richard Lawler
Early adopting Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player owners may be in for a special treat this weekend, as a poster on AVSForums has obtained a copy of a firmware upgrade early and posted it for download. Rumors on the board indicate Toshiba may release the update for owners to via disc or download next week, but if you just can't wait, all you need is a CD-R and a copy of Nero and you should be in business.
So what does the update do other than flipping your firmware number over to 1.2? Early reports from posters yorkie2k and sspears indicate reduced load times, no freezing when searching/skipping around movies and fixes for HDMI connection problems. Although the update is labeled for the HD-XA1 premium player, users have not reported any problems with the HD-A1 after upgrading. As usual, applying as yet unofficial updates could void your warranty, brick your player or kick your cat, so proceed with caution. Fortunately, as an early adopter, we know you're used to throwing caution to the wind, so update your player and let us know how it goes. Increased performance and stability may just be what Toshiba needs to lure the cautious off the fence and into buying.
It's been officially released now - takes 30 mins in total to download via the ethernet port and then update
Edge
I read somewhere that the Toshiba isn't being launced in the UK until November.
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