View Full Version : Format war over, HD-DVD wins...
...by way of pornography appearing on it first. Public fornication aside, it's pretty significant since everybody and their mom knows that whatever format the adult industry supports is automatically the winner, or at least that's how the story goes.
The movie includes both an HD-DVD and standard DVD version due to HD-DVD's small penetration (f'narr) rate thus far. It retails for about £25.
From gizmodo (http://uk.gizmodo.com/2006/08/18/first_ever_adult_hddvd_arrives.html) and there's a NSFW link there, as you'd expect.
:D
Hey you can get "Pirates" on HD-DVD too - now that'll be worth watching in high def ;)
Taq
Yeah, that's good enough for me. :lol:
Now you can finally see the track marks and looks of soulless desperation in their eyes properly.
:clap:
rbullivant
31-08-2006, 18:24
They always say that whichever porn supports will win because of the ammount of titles they produce each year, truth is though porn is a niche market that doesn't have mass appeal. People who buy porn are not going to dictate who wins the HD war.
Besides it'll be out on Blu-Ray soon enough
Richard
Yeah, but who really needs HD porn?
Also, who needs a porn film that even lasts longer than 15 minutes?
thescrounger
31-08-2006, 18:37
Millions of people are gagging for HD porn.
I think Vivid are exclusively supporting Blu-ray and other porn studios have said they'd be releasing on BD. I think only one or two have gone for HD-DVD.
But I agree, I don't think porn will decide the winner
Besides it'll be out on Blu-Ray soon enough
Not necessarily, Synapse Films apparently contacted Sony about releasing some of their gory horror flicks on BR only to be told that these sort of pictures would not be permitted on the format.
Similarly, from what I understand, Sony have never truly embraced porn on UMDs, merely turned a blind eye to it - I think more porn will end up on HD-DVD, and that this will have an effect on who wins the battle.
thescrounger
01-09-2006, 11:36
Price will win this war.
... truth is though porn is a niche market that doesn't have mass appeal ...I thought there was more money in porn than Hollywood ? :shrug:
thescrounger
01-09-2006, 12:33
There is, the porn industry is much bigger and more profitable than Hollywood mainstream movies.
I thought there was more money in porn than Hollywood ? :shrug:
Yeah, it's a vast industry. Not a niche market anymore.
Not necessarily, Synapse Films apparently [were] told that these sort of pictures would not be permitted on the format.
There was a thread on here about it. Did you only read the first post and ignore the debunking that followed? It makes a great headline but anyone with common sense would realise it's BS
the porn industry is much bigger and more profitable than Hollywood mainstream movies.
I don't believe for a second it's bigger than Hollywood. It's very likely it's more profitable given the low production costs and high profit margins.
I don't believe for a second it's bigger than Hollywood. It's very likely it's more profitable given the low production costs and high profit margins.
It depends how you define 'bigger' I suppose. If you think in terms of numbers of films released, I imagine porn to be bigger given they can make a film and release it in the space of a day or so.
There was a thread on here about it. Did you only read the first post and ignore the debunking that followed? It makes a great headline but anyone with common sense would realise it's BS
Hmmmm.... post by boss of DVD company vs. your debunkings.....
I notice that BCI's Spanish horror series is now only being released on HD-DVD and not Blu-ray as originally planned.
thescrounger
04-09-2006, 15:57
There's definitely a hidden agenda to Bluray.
jmdomain
04-09-2006, 18:30
Yeah, HD-DVD have already started their propaganda machine saying you'll catch an STD if you so much as touch a Blu-Ray.
Just a second...there are people out there that pay for porn??? Have they not heard of the magic of the interweb?
I wonder how many people here actually believe the Internet would be as big and widespread today if it was not for Porn.
In the early days, Porn is what got it into lots of households.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645
Well for me, I got onto the internet to play x-wing alliance and counterstrike and porn was a sideline, but it certainly helped :D
Not sure about this thread, but that Google Video is AWESOME! :)
James
jmdomain
05-09-2006, 11:45
Where would the internet be if you couldn't peruse the best in crusty and mouldy gammon flaps. :D
kiran_mk2
05-09-2006, 22:57
Another Toshiba interview here: http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6639
New info that we haven't heard before - could BluRay discs damage the drives?
HEXUS.lifestyle: But in just raw data storage, Blu-ray is going to be better as it holds more data.
Jim Armour: Looking at the numbers on a bit of paper, you’d think so, but what you need to do is look at the Blu-ray discs and players first, before you make a decision. Let’s go back to the disc construction for a second. HD DVD uses a sandwich method which helps to combat disc warping. Blu-ray doesn’t. It uses a single plastic substrate layer, then adds on the recording material and then top it all off with a very hard Zircon layer. This means that when the disc expands to get hot, it will warp downwards as that Zircon layer isn’t going to budge.
HEXUS.lifestyle: But that’s a uniform direction of warping? Surely as long as you’re ready for it, it won’t make any difference?
Jim Armour: You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But now we have to go back to the lens. Blu-ray uses a 0.85 Numerical Aperture and, with their recording layer just 0.1mm below the disc surface, they’ve got to get the lens very close to the disc surface to be able to focus it tightly enough to give them a 25GB storage capacity. So now you’ve got a Blu-ray lens sitting somewhere between 0.1 and 0.3 millimetres from a disc coated with a substance almost as tough as diamond which, when it warps, can only warp downwards, towards the lens. Guess what happens when you run Zircon over glass at 2000rpm? Sure, your data will be safe but you’re going to need a new Blu-ray lens.
HEXUS.lifestyle: So the Blu-ray system has a built in flaw that could mean you get through Blu-ray players quicker than you do discs?
Jim Armour: It would appear so, yes. The other thing to remember is that Blu-ray discs are very expensive to produce when compared to HD DVD discs, mostly because of the construction methods needed to place the recording layer at the optimum distance from the lens so they can get 25GB of storage space. HD DVD takes a more sensible and robust route, chosen from a combination of factors – disc warping, disc durability, focal point of the laser etc. Plus, the use of better Codecs mean that HD DVD doesn’t even need as much storage space as Blu-ray to achieve the same high-quality video. The lower disc production costs reflect this, too.
HEXUS.lifestyle: So in summing up, HD DVD uses a more durable system of disc construction and player technology, coupled with decent Codecs to allow the same amount of high-definition video footage as a larger capacity Blu-ray disc can provide?
Jim Armour: Yes, that’s it absolutely. Don’t forget that we believe HD DVD will also give better performance over the long term due to having far better tolerances for errors than Blu-ray. Not just reading errors on the disc itself, but mechanical errors from the player, too. We don’t run our lenses as close to the disc so there’s less likelihood of a crash between the two. And if that happens, there’s less chance of the lens coming off worse with HD DVD.
Can't see it being a problem in stand alone players cos they only play at 1x, but surely the Ps3 will spin up the disc much quicker to access files?
thescrounger
05-09-2006, 23:59
Could this dirty secret be the reason there are no double layer discs yet?
Another Toshiba interview here: http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6639
Can't see it being a problem in stand alone players cos they only play at 1x, but surely the Ps3 will spin up the disc much quicker to access files?
I thought they ran at either 1.5x or 2x as 1 isn't fast enough for video playback.
James
jake1969
06-09-2006, 07:55
And here's a follow up article regarding Jim Armour's claims
http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6640
thescrounger
06-09-2006, 08:04
And here's a follow up article regarding Jim Armour's claims
http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6640
So after one test of tilting the drive sideways they think they've debunked his claims? I think Jims point was that the drive would be more likely to fail after a short while, maybe months, A bit like those phillips DVD recorders that had a faulty laser that only failed after about 6 months use.
jake1969
06-09-2006, 08:14
So after one test of tilting the drive sideways they think they've debunked his claims? I think Jims point was that the drive would be more likely to fail after a short while, maybe months, A bit like those phillips DVD recorders that had a faulty laser that only failed after about 6 months use.
It was more than just tilting the drive. Regardless of however "scientific" the tests are I'm taking with a pinch of salt anything that a manufacturer says about a rival product. Jim was hardly going to praise a rival system.
There's nothing to say that Toshiba products won't be beset with problems in 6 months time either. It could easily apply to both formats!
thescrounger
06-09-2006, 08:19
It was more than just tilting the drive. Regardless of however "scientific" the tests are I'm taking with a pinch of salt anything that a manufacturer says about a rival product. Jim was hardly going to praise a rival system.
Of course, but if his claims are true I'm certainly more hesitant to splash out a grand on a Bluray drive that might fail in under a year. This just makes waiting to see what happens all the more sensible option. Bluray having trouble with making double layer discs available also adds fuel to the paranoia.
There's nothing to say that Toshiba products won't be beset with problems in 6 months time either. It could easily apply to both formats!
Well, Bluray is the technology that is the new and untried one. HD-DVD is just an extension of tried and tested DVD technology.
Guys, this thread's about pr0n, not an indepth discussion of the numerical aperture safety threshold of the BlueRay laser array. :nono:
HugoMorse
05-12-2006, 07:49
Well, I have the first HD-DVD porn title. just a Sampler disc with two full scenes in 1080i with loads of trailers (probably in SD). I bought two extra and have them advertised in the Adult classifieds. I can't comment on what they are like, as I do not have my 360 HD-DVD yet. Bring it on....
Interesting link here (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36942) about the speculation of the HD format war in relation to the pr0n industry and why many are happy to just wait until the smoke clears.
Didn't realise Sony said "No pr0n evah!" on Blue Ray and also Betamax (and look what happened to that format).
Erm, Vivid have announced their titles are coming out on Blu-Ray. So much for Sony doesn't allow porn, as I said in the other thread...its the replication plant not the standard that has a no porn policy.
thescrounger
15-01-2007, 15:02
Erm, Vivid have announced their titles are coming out on Blu-Ray. So much for Sony doesn't allow porn, as I said in the other thread...its the replication plant not the standard that has a no porn policy.
Vivid is probably the most respectable mainstream porn studio out there. It's not a suprise to learn they've been allowed.
douglasb
15-01-2007, 15:08
Not according to here:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36942
Suggests Sony *are* going after replicators.
Other point worth mentioning from that article: currently costs $25,000 to create a B-R master. That would effectively double the production costs of many low-budget pr0ns and would be uneconomical in an environment where a few thousand dollars profit on any given title is a result. Why do some small studios pump out 4 or more titles per month? It's because they only make a couple of thousand bucks on each.
thescrounger
15-01-2007, 15:23
Not looking good is it.
Grandmaster
15-01-2007, 16:06
Erm, Vivid have announced their titles are coming out on Blu-Ray. So much for Sony doesn't allow porn, as I said in the other thread...its the replication plant not the standard that has a no porn policy.
Vivid have not pressed a single Blu-ray disc. The adult industry convention takes place parallel to CES (I've been, it's physically right next door) and so that Inquirer article is most likely right on the money and Vivid are most likely the mystery filth peddler who've actually authored a Blu-ray disc. So why isn't it for sale then? Or no release date announced?
Martin Ball
15-01-2007, 19:17
Interesting report over on The Digital Bits from the recent CES show which covers both camps and has some interesting updates as well as some vey interesting news about THD discs.
However in their summing up they state that from the top 20 best selling DVD of 2006, only 1 belongs to an HD-DVD exclusive studio, 19 of them could be released on bluray of which 16 would be exclusive! OF course all these titles aren't announced yet but, and I quote:
On the Blu-ray side... well, it's pretty hard not to be impressed by the selection of titles that are on the way - titles that are exclusive to the format. The Rock, Crimson Tide, Cars, both Pirates films, Casino Royale, Ronin, A Few Good Men, Rocky Balboa, Jerry Maguire, Dirty Dancing, Ice Age, Master & Commander, Man on Fire, Edward Scissorhands, Predator, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Independence Day, I, Robot, Cast Away, A Night at the Museum, The Usual Suspects, Dances with Wolves, The Silence of the Lambs, Platoon, The Graduate, Battle of Britain, A Bridge Too Far, To Live & Die in L.A., A Fistful of Dollars, Bull Durham (not to mention a pair of TV titles Fox confirmed they're doing early in 2007 in the Blu-ray promotional pamphlet from CES - 24 and Prison Break)... how does HD-DVD compete with that? Porn? I don't think so. If Universal had announced E.T., Back to the Future, Jaws, Jurassic Park (and I'll admit that I honestly expected them to announce at least one of those titles this week)... okay, maybe. But they didn't. As we used to say back in the early days of DVD, a home video format is only as good the films you can watch on it. It was true then, and it's true now. It's all about the movies. I love the fact that Bandai Visual is releasing anime on HD-DVD, but anime has a VERY limited appeal to most consumers. Frankly, I think the best thing that happened to HD-DVD this week was New Line announcing that they'll support HD-DVD via Warner's THD disc, potentially bringing Lord of the Rings to both formats. But when you look at that list of Blu-ray exclusive titles... man. What makes this list even more striking are the titles that AREN'T there, but that you know are probably on the way. With The Rock and Crimson Tide coming, can Armageddon be far behind? Sony says they're doing Ghost Rider this year... but does anyone think they won't release the Spider-Man movies on Blu-ray in 2007, what with Spidey 3 arriving in theaters in a few months? What about Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge on the River Kwai, Starship Troopers, Kill Bill, Pulp Fiction? And what about the bigger titles that are probably several years off, but that will almost certainly still be Blu-ray exclusive - titles like Alien, Aliens, Die Hard, True Lies, The Abyss, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the older Bond films, classic Disney animated titles, the bigger Pixar films, possibly even the Star Wars films?
There are some pretty strong titles which have been announced for 2007 from the bluray camp. Of course if HD-DVD wins eventually then all these titles will also be released on that but that is still some way off. Now I know a film like Independence Day isn't many people's favourite film but there is no denying that it is a very big title which will sell and sell big.
I have to say that I'm very much on the fence regarding either format. HD-DVD has the cheaper players whereas bluray looks like within a few months will have the better software.
Of course this could all change, especially if more studios adopt THD, but what's the point of buying a cheaper player if a lot of your favourite films won't play on it?
When I upgrade I will definately want the likes of Aliens, Bond, Dances with Wolves, Usual Suspects, Pirates of the Caribbean, Disney, Pixar, in my collection, and at the moment it looks like you'll have to get a bluray player to get them.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/15/tosh_touts_51gb_hddvd/
So much for the 51Gb disc, new players needed! :lol:
Pah, I remember when DVD first came out there was promise of multiangles etc and not much of that appeared.
Please correct me if I am wrong as I don't actually watch porn. :D
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/01/15/tosh_touts_51gb_hddvd/
So much for the 51Gb disc, new players needed! :lol:
All marketing just to combat the one thing that BluRay can say is better - capacity. But you don't need all that space. 30GB with a VC-1 or H.264 codec is plenty enough for even Lord of the Rings or Titanic. The only thing that I can think you would need that much capacity for is getting the whole of one TV series on one disc.
All marketing just to combat the one thing that BluRay can say is better - capacity. But you don't need all that space. 30GB with a VC-1 or H.264 codec is plenty enough for even Lord of the Rings or Titanic. The only thing that I can think you would need that much capacity for is getting the whole of one TV series on one disc.
I disagree, I think Lord Of The Rings Extended Editions with VC1 or H264 and DTS HD would be pushing it. Then you'd be pushing it further with other video commentaries. The beauty of Blu-ray 50gb is that you can fit a 3.5 hour movie with PCM and audio commentaries.
Spooky_uk
16-01-2007, 01:15
My greatest hope for bluray to fail is so that it will stop in rabid fanboy preachings of we all know who. :lol:
I already have the 360 addon and will be getting a PS3 at some point so will have both sides covered whatever the eventual winner is. For the sake of HD content in general and the consumer I really do believe HD-DVD is the way to go. Sony want control, far too much control. Never good when a studio also has the medium in its pocket as well...or visa versa :(
And as a supporter of sonys past incarnations - if the PS3 has to flop totally long term in order to stop bluray in its tracks then so be it.
My greatest hope for bluray to fail is so that it will stop in rabid fanboy preachings of we all know who. :lol:
I already have the 360 addon and will be getting a PS3 at some point so will have both sides covered whatever the eventual winner is. For the sake of HD content in general and the consumer I really do believe HD-DVD is the way to go. Sony want control, far too much control. Never good when a studio also has the medium in its pocket as well...or visa versa :(
And as a supporter of sonys past incarnations - if the PS3 has to flop totally long term in order to stop bluray in its tracks then so be it.
You see, I find exactly the same thing with HD-DVD fanboys. To say what you just said is a completely hypocritical statement.
I do admit I am supporting the Blu-ray side strongly. I have always been a one who hates Sony in the past. While that is still valid in some ways like their constant need to have their own formats, I'm taking Blu-rays side this time because many other brands support it too.
I am a technology fan, and I feel HD-DVD is too limited in terms of its technical specifications. Its more like DVD 2.0, but Blu-ray is new.
Of course, we could sit here arguing forever. Its stupid at the end of the day. Its like when I was a kid saying ooh Mega Drive is better than SNES blah blah. On here, AVSForums, we're all adults with good intelligent jobs where we can obviously afford to put our money into technology. I guess we should all start acting like it. Am I a hypocrit, of course! But that stands for the same bunch of HD-DVD fanboys here as it does Blu-ray.
Grandmaster
16-01-2007, 07:42
I would be 100% in support of Blu-ray were it not for the fact that generally speaking HD DVD - as a product - is offering better quality movies with more extras and better interactivity via iHD. Blu-ray is still playing catch-up.
You can have all the technological advances in the world, but it means nothing if the final product doesn't live up to the technically inferior competition.
I would be 100% in support of Blu-ray were it not for the fact that generally speaking HD DVD - as a product - is offering better quality movies with more extras and better interactivity via iHD. Blu-ray is still playing catch-up.
You can have all the technological advances in the world, but it means nothing if the final product doesn't live up to the technically inferior competition.
True and I agree to some extentent. When you say better quality movies, I take it you mean picture quality as there are far better movies on/coming Blu-ray IMO (though down to taste).
If in terms of picture quality, yes HD-DVD has more movies with better quality, but thats down to Universal being a better studio at handling the picture quality. While we could take Warner as an example of matching the picture quality of HD-DVD and Blu-ray releases, they are not doing well with their DD True-HD format on Blu-ray. Then again, least Blu-ray uses alot of PCM audio and Fox are pushing DTS-HD.
Their is pros and cons of both. Whats good is both have the ability to match each other due to authoring and mastering. Except, HD-DVD can't match Blu-rays data transfer rate or data space within the Video specification.
Of course, I'm being a hypocrit again and it may sound like i'm trying to have the last word. Trouble is its just too hard to bite my tongue on partially false points (tho IMO). :nuts:
LouBarlow
16-01-2007, 08:54
I am a technology fan, and I feel HD-DVD is too limited in terms of its technical specifications. Its more like DVD 2.0, but Blu-ray is new.
Not sure I understand this - surely they both play movies on round shiny things, with an increased picture resolution, and spangly new soundtracks, or am I missing something?
Not sure I understand this - surely they both play movies on round shiny things, with an increased picture resolution, and spangly new soundtracks, or am I missing something?
Well a DVD9 disc can technically handle all of those too if they wanted, although prob only about 30 minutes worth. I'm more on about storage space and the physical characteristics.
Grandmaster
16-01-2007, 13:48
I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from Gareth, but there is nothing factually inaccurate about my post whatsoever. And there's nothing factually inaccurate about this one either:
It's nothing to do with Universal putting more effort into picture quality. It's everything to do with the HD DVD studios settling on a mostly standardised workflow with a superior compression technology that produces excellent results. And having a scripting language for extras that's actually complete and appears to work with all players.
Sony's response to HD DVD quality is simply to up the bitrate on their existing MPEG2 encoder and fill out a higher capacity disc, which to my mind is a very poor use of superior technology.
Sony are finally getting their act together with AVC encoding (ie they're actually going to start using it later in 2007), but they're still miles behind with the extras and interactivity element compared with HD DVD. As are the other BD studios. We're even seeing situations whereby the HD DVD versions of movies are still better as an overall product than the BD version - even when they're simply ports of the HD DVD encodes! Superman Returns for example, has lossless audio on HD DVD, but not on BD. This is because unbelievably, there is no lossless audio compression system on BD that is 100% spec-compliant with every BD player out there (hence the LPCM uncompressed audio that crapped out so many of the SL25 releases).
In terms of extras, take, for example, the notion of on-screen pop-ups and video commentary. HD DVD does this by having separate video and audio streams mixed in that can be brought up at will. On the new BD disc "The Descent", the same effect is achieved by encoding the *whole movie* twice. Once with the video commentary, and once without. Not surprisingly because of this lame-ass approach, a dual layer BD50 disc is required. And it doesn't work on Sony and Pioneer's player (which is essentially the same machine rebadged), requiring a firmware upgrade.
It's all of this stuff which puts me off BD. All the workarounds and half-assed measures, the misuse of the superior capacity. All for a product which - at its best - matches the picture quality of HD DVD, but doesn't match the quality of the interactive extras.
Let's face facts - all the evidence points to HD DVD by and large working as a complete product, while BD is still very much a work in progress.
BTW do you actually own any kind of high definition movie playback platform?
I'm not sure where you're getting your facts from Gareth, but there is nothing factually inaccurate about my post whatsoever. And there's nothing factually inaccurate about this one either:
It's nothing to do with Universal putting more effort into picture quality. It's everything to do with the HD DVD studios settling on a mostly standardised workflow with a superior compression technology that produces excellent results. And having a scripting language for extras that's actually complete and appears to work with all players.
Sony's response to HD DVD quality is simply to up the bitrate on their existing MPEG2 encoder and fill out a higher capacity disc, which to my mind is a very poor use of superior technology.
Sony are finally getting their act together with AVC encoding (ie they're actually going to start using it later in 2007), but they're still miles behind with the extras and interactivity element compared with HD DVD. As are the other BD studios. We're even seeing situations whereby the HD DVD versions of movies are still better as an overall product than the BD version - even when they're simply ports of the HD DVD encodes! Superman Returns for example, has lossless audio on HD DVD, but not on BD. This is because unbelievably, there is no lossless audio compression system on BD that is 100% spec-compliant with every BD player out there.
In terms of extras, take, for example, the notion of on-screen pop-ups and video commentary. HD DVD does this by having separate video and audio streams mixed in that can be brought up at will. On the new BD disc "The Descent", the same effect is achieved by encoding the *whole movie* twice. Once with the video commentary, and once without. Not surprisingly because of this lame-ass approach, a dual layer BD50 disc is required. And it doesn't work on Sony and Pioneer's player (which is essentially the same machine rebadged), requiring a firmware upgrade.
It's all of this stuff which puts me off BD. All the workarounds and half-assed measures, the misuse of the superior capacity. All for a product which - at its best - matches the picture quality of HD DVD, but doesn't match the quality of the interactive extras.
Let's face facts - all the evidence points to HD DVD by and large working as a complete product, while BD is still very much a work in progress.
BTW do you actually own any kind of high definition movie playback platform?
Don't get me wrong you have some good points. However, please stop using Sony as a basis on MPEG 2. There have some been some excellent results with MPEG 2 though. Warner, Fox and Disney have used the other two codecs frequently with excellent results. Just see the reviews at: http://www.highdefdigest.com/ or alike.
Tell me where is the DTS-HD support or PCM support on HD-DVD?????
Given, Blu-ray is still playing catch up in some respects and is still in progress. Though, i'm happy with that as by end of 2007 HD-DVD will have nothing better, where as Blu-ray still has a fully compatible 50gb disc.
Once the Interactive stuff has been sorted? Tell me, what valid points will you have? Speaking of title support, tell me..bit dead on the coming soon of HD-DVD front isn't it!!!
FYI, I do own a Xbox 360 with the HD-DVD addon (and King Kong). I'm still trying to get hold of a PS3. However, I have used a Panasonic Blu-ray player.
As I said, you have some valid points and you seem fairly level headed generally and willing. However, where we disagree is my willingness to watch the improvements of Blu-ray day by day.
LouBarlow
16-01-2007, 16:58
OMG Gareth you are the worst fan-boy ever seeing as you don't even own a player of the format you are supporting ;)
However, I have used a Panasonic Blu-ray player.
That logic works for Ken Rockwell. ;)
OMG Gareth you are the worst fan-boy ever seeing as you don't even own a player of the format you are supporting ;)
:thumbs: haha! True, I can hardly talk. But I never purchased any more movies for my HD-DVD as I really don't see it as a viable option. To be honest, I think alot of other HD-DVD fanboys are the just angry cuz they are getting shafted for support at the moment, especially after spending their money. Denial!
LouBarlow
16-01-2007, 18:28
:thumbs: haha! True, I can hardly talk. But I never purchased any more movies for my HD-DVD as I really don't see it as a viable option. To be honest, I think alot of other HD-DVD fanboys are the just angry cuz they are getting shafted for support at the moment, especially after spending their money. Denial!
Well I wouldn't class myself as a fanboy - I sold my standalone player at cost, and bought the 360 add-on as I wanted to see how the war fought out before commiting further - I would definitely support bluray if it were based on studio support alone, but support means jack if they don't release anything worthy, as is the case at the moment.
I enjoy the dozen or so films I have bought on hd-dvd so far, and will continue to do so if the format dies tomorrow, and wouldn't see it at all as wasted money.
Well I wouldn't class myself as a fanboy - I sold my standalone player at cost, and bought the 360 add-on as I wanted to see how the war fought out before commiting further - I would definitely support bluray if it were based on studio support alone, but support means jack if they don't release anything worthy, as is the case at the moment.
I enjoy the dozen or so films I have bought on hd-dvd so far, and will continue to do so if the format dies tomorrow, and wouldn't see it at all as wasted money.
Putting arugments aside, can I ask which movies you'd like to see on Blu-ray?
Perhaps this is why Universal have stopped announcing HD-DVD titles?
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/101993/hd-dvd-makes-its-cracked-bittorrent-debut.html
Only a guess ofcourse?
LouBarlow
16-01-2007, 18:50
Putting arugments aside, can I ask which movies you'd like to see on Blu-ray?
Not really movies mate, but I'd love the Fox tv shows on BR. :)
Spooky_uk
16-01-2007, 19:28
You see, I find exactly the same thing with HD-DVD fanboys. To say what you just said is a completely hypocritical statement.
But that stands for the same bunch of HD-DVD fanboys here as it does Blu-ray.
so I am a HD-DVD fanboy now am I ? And you base that statement on what ???
you know We had a betamax (best read up on that see as it was before your time :lol: ) and I also had a Laser Disc player. So I have invested in mediums that did not take off, and thanks to Sony we now have a HD format war. We didn't need it, the only winner as far as a medium goes will be SD DVD. (And I am sure that will make you happy) Same as CD was and still is the winner as far as DVD-Audio and SACD. No point in argueing about it and bragging about extra GB's of space - at the end of the day it will be empty space - they can't even fill SD DVD's !!! Once whichever format wins (if either one does) the wind will be well and truly out of the sails by then I am afriad.
thescrounger
16-01-2007, 19:52
:thumbs: haha! True, I can hardly talk. But I never purchased any more movies for my HD-DVD as I really don't see it as a viable option. To be honest, I think alot of other HD-DVD fanboys are the just angry cuz they are getting shafted for support at the moment, especially after spending their money. Denial!
Bluray will fail. Heed my words.
Grandmaster
16-01-2007, 20:34
So basically Gareth, you agree with my assessment that Blu-ray is a work in progress that is attempting to catch up with HD DVD? I find it extremely hard to advocate a technology that is simply not yet ready and is *still* playing catch up with HD DVD in terms of the quality of the overall product. Picture quality is improving, sure, but until there is a standardised workflow with proven results, buying a movie remains a lottery. Will you get MPEG2, VC1 or AVC? If you're lumbered with MPEG2 will it be a BD50 or SL25? If it's an SL25, will it be poor like many of them? If it's BD50 will it be poor like Crank?
Is that really what you want from a movie format? And more than that, the bottom line is that the best picture quality you'll get from Blu-ray is what you're already getting with the vast majority of HD DVD movies any way.
With regards PCM or DTS HD, why do you need them when you already have mandatory lossless codecs supported by all players with HD DVD? Imagine the lossless codecs as a ZIP file. Once decompressed, it's exactly the same as the uncompressed original. The exact same audio data is going to your amp as an LPCM file would be providing any way - it's another example of technology working smarter vs Blu-ray improvising on the fly.
Superior technology is completely pointless if it is not being used correctly. Right now I see HD DVD as a Porsche and Blu-ray as a Ferrari. The Ferrari should be a lot faster, only Blu-ray is an unfinished Ferrari that doesn't go as fast as it says it does.
As I said, the only rational argument I see *at the moment* in favour of Blu-ray is the studio support. Once they are consistently matching the quality of HD DVD as an overall product (some actual proper working BD-J authoring might help for starters) then I might buy more discs.
I own two PS3s, a Blu-ray disc burner and an Xbox 360 add-on by the way. The quality of my small BD collection is all over the place, and I found myself buying Kingdom of Heaven not because it's a good movie that I enjoyed but because everyone is telling me it's a great AVC encode! How warped is that?
AndyWilson
16-01-2007, 21:58
I'm not an expert, but a cursory glance at the "Hot BR/HD" releases on amazon.com does seem to indicate that HD-DVD has a much bigger breadth of titles available. Where are movies like Forbidden Planet, The Searchers or Willy Wonka on BluRay?
If BR's more mainstream releasing policy wins the day I'll probably be sticking to SD...
Perhaps this is why Universal have stopped announcing HD-DVD titles?
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/101993/hd-dvd-makes-its-cracked-bittorrent-debut.html
Only a guess ofcourse?First thing I thought when I read that was "Can't stop the signal" :D
LouBarlow
16-01-2007, 22:25
BR's security is just as vulnerable anyway.
It will be cracked soon enough, as the two share similar security measures.
My greatest hope for bluray to fail is so that it will stop in rabid fanboy preachings of we all know who.
so I am a HD-DVD fanboy now am I ? And you base that statement on what ???
No offense, but how can call others fanboys and then not accept that judgement when somebody else says it?
I found myself buying Kingdom of Heaven not because it's a good movie that I enjoyed but because everyone is telling me it's a great AVC encode!
You said it, not me :lol:
As I said, the only rational argument I see *at the moment* in favour of Blu-ray is the studio support. Once they are consistently matching the quality of HD DVD as an overall product (some actual proper working BD-J authoring might help for starters) then I might buy more discs.
Out of all the replies here, IMO you're the only one who seems to have rational and intelligent thinking here. I get what you're saying. Though, do you honestly think studios will switch over to HD-DVD? and Why? I'm looking for your answer, not cuz i'm being funny but am honestly interested.
Gotta love these discussions :nuts:
thescrounger
16-01-2007, 22:57
I get what you're saying. Though, do you honestly think studios will switch over to HD-DVD? and Why? I'm looking for your answer, not cuz i'm being funny but am honestly interested.
Because it's making more money?
Because it's making more money?
Care to back that up?
thescrounger
16-01-2007, 23:22
Care to back that up?
Yep, I back that up 100%.
It will be cracked soon enough, as the two share similar security measures.
Both use ACSS but the BDA decided to add further protection. BD-mark and BD+ should mean that any crack via ACSS can be halted
Superman Returns lacked the TrueHD track on the BD version but the blame for that lies with Warner, not the BDA. Warner could have used a PCM version or DTS-MA version
My greatest hope for Blu-ray to fail is so that it will stop in rabid fanboy preachings of we all know who.
In that case I guess if Blu-ray wins it'll have the same effect.
Where are movies like Forbidden Planet, The Searchers or Willy Wonka on BluRay?
You're using that as a format argument, when it's a studio argument. Why haven't Warner released those titles yet? Who knows but there isn't some inherent old-fogieness to HD DVD :p As it happens, The Searchers has been out on BD for quite some time now and the other two won't be far behind as Warner is committed to equalising both formats
Both formats are incredibly similar in terms of variety. If classic films are your thing, there are plenty scheduled for this year.
I'd love the Fox tv shows on BR
Such as 24 and Prison Break? Both were announced at CES!
Because it's making more money?
Whatever format wins will make more money than the one that loses. If a BD studio switches it'll just drag the whole mess out and lose them more money.
Yep, I back that up 100%.
Why don't you call yourself "TheWall" :lol:
kiran_mk2
17-01-2007, 00:07
I guess the BDA studios will be watching BluRay sales very closely - now that there are more BR players out in the wild (thanks to the PS3) than HD-DVD players. If sales of BR discs don't pick up then how can the BDA studios possibly justify not supporting HD-DVD to their boards/shareholders. These companies are around to make money.
I'd prefer it if HD-DVD did win cos they seem to actually have a finished product and use their technology wisely. What I can't understand is how even though the BDA have far more hardware manufacturers (Sony, Matsu****a, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Philips, Sharp and more vs Toshiba, NEC and Sanyo) there are more HD-DVD players available then BluRay!
I guess the BDA studios will be watching BluRay sales very closely - now that there are more BR players out in the wild (thanks to the PS3) than HD-DVD players. If sales of BR discs don't pick up then how can the BDA studios possibly justify not supporting HD-DVD to their boards/shareholders. These companies are around to make money.
I'd prefer it if HD-DVD did win cos they seem to actually have a finished product and use their technology wisely. What I can't understand is how even though the BDA have far more hardware manufacturers (Sony, Matsu****a, Pioneer, LG, Samsung, Philips, Sharp and more vs Toshiba, NEC and Sanyo) there are more HD-DVD players available then BluRay!
I think you'll find the big hardware giants are going for Blu-ray due to its higher cost. Pioneer etc etc lost out because cheap chinese companies started making £50 DVD jobbies. There is big money to be made in Blu-ray.
Before anyone questions it and says i'm contradicting myself, who wants a tacky HD player with crappy video boards? J6P might yes, but for anyone into AV its not always the best is it?
BD and HD sales are neck and neck now i think you'll find.
Spooky_uk
17-01-2007, 02:17
J6P might yes, but for anyone into AV its not always the best is it?
:brickwall nail on the head. now lets get our heads out of the clouds here shall we - to appeal to the geeks,fanboys and av enthusiast is one thing - for either format to survive long term it has to step up and appeal to the masses and yes that does mean joe bloggs (DVD managed to do this and it yet remains to be seen if the same jump can be made again in a generation - there are considerable doubts around this). If neither format makes that jump then they will be sidelined just like Laserdisc was, media prices will rise and new releases will slowly dry up. once all the ass slapping and whooping and new shiny toy-itus has worn off that is the cold reality facing HD right now so one format needs to break free and get a boost over the other to end the format war ASAP. My opinion due to the onset of cheapo HD-DVD players and the porn scenario is that HD-DVD is best placed to make that jump. As far as content goes as already stated they are virtually identicle and the alleged extra GB in bluray will not be used in the vast majority of releases - mark my words.
This does not make me a fanboy - it makes me someone that wants a HD format to suceed and not become a costly failure or wasted opportunity like so many other formats in recent years.....
LouBarlow
17-01-2007, 05:41
Out of all the replies here, IMO you're the only one who seems to have rational and intelligent thinking here.
Hope you're including yourself in that statement :nuts:
I think you lost the plot when you admitted not even owning a player for the format you are championing - speaks volumes that :p
Hope you're including yourself in that statement :nuts:
I think you lost the plot when you admitted not even owning a player for the format you are championing - speaks volumes that :p
I tell you the problem here, is nobody can seem to take the argument, they can't handle it so they defend it to no end. Flaming back only shows my comments anger you.
I was reading through camaj's points and thinking "exactly"! Anyway, this thread is getting childish. It really is like discussing something with a brick wall. I'm just gonna sit back now and watch it happen. In 6-12 months time it'll be nice to reply and say see i told you so, whether thats me or yourselves!
douglasb
17-01-2007, 09:58
Anyone who's a "fan" of a multi-national company must be on drugs. I've always thought this about console "fans" and this debate changes nothing.
Grandmaster
17-01-2007, 10:46
Both use ACSS but the BDA decided to add further protection. BD-mark and BD+ should mean that any crack via ACSS can be halted
BD-Mark doesn't stop you copying the data from the disc (the basis of a rip), AACS is still being used on Blu-ray and is just as vulnerable. BD+ is a total non-issue right now because no discs use it. ACSS will simply revoke the decryption keys of the compromised player and everything will be back to how it was. Even one of the key members of the BDA has admitted at CES that the AACS hack is of as much relevance to BD as it is for HD DVD.
And even if you rip an HD DVD or BD, what are you going to do with it? If you've spent a lot of money on a player you won't buy pirated goods for it. And it's not economical to burn it to an HD blank any way. That leaves HD rips as being only useful to people with very powerful PCs and very large hard disks connected to high definition displays. Affect on HD revenues? Absolutely minimal.
Piracy on HD DVD or Blu-ray is far less of an issue compared to the direct digital 1080p captures of movies taken from Sky HD and the German channels. Bitrates in excess of 16mbps coupled with the h264 codec mean that in many cases, the picture quality matches most BD efforts any way.
A totally unencrypted 1080p transfer of a movie taken from one of those sources could easily be mastered into a pirate BD or HD DVD. It would save them the bother of capturing digitally over HDMI any way (and if I can do that, so can any reasonably organised pirate group). But why bother doing it when there is no audience for it?
In the overall scheme of things though, ACSS, BD+ and BD-Mark are a supreme irrelevance - ammunition only to the fanboys, and a political plaster for movie studios intent on DRMing away their own audience without solving the core problems of movie piracy.
Guys, guys. This thread was about pr0n, not format bashing. Can we please keep it on track.
Guys, guys. This thread was about pr0n, not format bashing. Can we please keep it on track.
Very good point Boink, my apologies for disrupting the main topic. To put this thread back on topic, I leave you with a link:
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Blu-ray_Refutes_Claims_of_Porn_Ban_Vivid_Plans_First_High-Def_Release/437
Blu-ray loves porn after all :suspect:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37021
kiran_mk2
17-01-2007, 15:14
Does porn really matter this time around? With vhs/betamax the only alternative was going to an adult cinema. When vhs porn came about you could ahem "enjoy" it in the privacy of your own home. With this format battle, porn is already readily available on vhs, DVD and via the internet for free so why would the trenchcoat brigade want to drop £400 or so on a new technology when what they've got already is fine?
Spooky_uk
17-01-2007, 15:19
:lol:
thescrounger
17-01-2007, 16:30
porn is already readily available on vhs, DVD and via the internet for free so why would the trenchcoat brigade want to drop £400 or so on a new technology when what they've got already is fine?
Maybe the 'Trenchcoat brigade' also like watching non porn movies as well?
Just a crazy guess. :shrug:
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5686
Without Sony’s help, Vivid had to find authoring and replication facilities on its own. Hirsch added that Sony puts restrictions on all Blu-ray manufacturing facilities that produce Disney titles disallowing them from making adult content.
While other adult video companies such as Digital Playground have decided to go ahead with HD DVD first, Hirsch expressed optimism for the Blu-ray format. “It seems to me that Blu-ray has the momentum right now, due to the release of the PlayStation 3 adding a lot more players to the market,” he figured, though Vivid plans to offer all its high-definition films in both formats.
So as I said before, its not Sony, its the replication facilities.
So as I said before, its not Sony, its the replication facilities.
Hirsch added that Sony puts restrictions on all Blu-ray manufacturing facilities that produce Disney titles disallowing them from making adult content.
Did you read that sentence?
Seems pretty daft anyway, are adult films like peanuts - might they contaminate copies of "Lion King 3"?
Did you read that sentence?
Seems pretty daft anyway, are adult films like peanuts - might they contaminate copies of "Lion King 3"?
Yes I did read it, thats because they are owned by Sony, I meant its not Sony restricting the BD license, its the facilities they restrict.
In answer to your second point, they was a couple of cases in the past where a porn title was accidently pressed onto a disney labelled dvd.
staffyman
17-01-2007, 22:07
Guys, guys. This thread was about pr0n, not format bashing.
Ah, I see... It's about bishop bashing then... :D
*I'll get me (trench)coat!
thescrounger
17-01-2007, 22:27
So as I said before, its not Sony, its the replication facilities.
You've just quoted material that puts the blame firmly in sonys hands. :nuts:
You've just quoted material that puts the blame firmly in sonys hands. :nuts:
So, seriously I think we should all grow up...myself included! Least I admit it, why can't you? We should all stop getting so stressed about it. Here is another link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety
:nuts: :lol:
Ah, I see... It's about bishop bashing then... :D
:clap: :thumbs:
Spooky_uk
18-01-2007, 01:33
So, seriously I think we should all grow up...myself included! Least I admit it, why can't you? We should all stop getting so stressed about it. Here is another link for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety
:nuts: :lol:
looks like only you getting stressed (what with this thread and the Why are sony hated so much? in the PS3 thread) ;)
anyway here you go.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Originally Posted by Spooky_uk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy
:suspect: :lol:
Lets get this back on topic can we please.
Lets get this back on topic can we please.
Sorry Alan.
In a relation to the topic, who will actually buy porn (or your mate cough cough) on HD-DVD or Blu-ray? :)
Sorry Alan.
In a relation to the topic, who will actually buy porn (or your mate cough cough) on HD-DVD or Blu-ray? :)
Don't forget, not all porn is of the "Silicone Valley" variety. If Seduction Cinema release any HD titles I will certainly be interested, and I'll certainly be first in line to pick up some sleazy 1980s European films!
Don't forget, not all porn is of the "Silicone Valley" variety. If Seduction Cinema release any HD titles I will certainly be interested, and I'll certainly be first in line to pick up some sleazy 1980s European films!
Yeah true. I think only Vivid and Digital Playground shoot in HD on all new titles now. Some of the less feature movies are still shot on DV! Some other studios shoot on the same HD cams as say Digital Playground but the quality is nowhere near as good as they don't know how to master properly.
Alan George
18-01-2007, 14:03
Well; I'm staying out of this war untill there's a winner - & then waiting for something better than Plasma or the god awfall LCD to see it on.
LouBarlow
18-01-2007, 14:56
Won't get a lot better than a projector...
You've just quoted material that puts the blame firmly in sonys hands. :nuts:
That doesn't mean it's true! They're clearly claiming Sony have banned Porn when it appears that the blame lies with the replicators. Sony couldn't ban it even if they wanted to
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