View Full Version : Is the eBay ticket touting bubble bursting?
spartacus101
19-12-2006, 20:20
Discuss!
It has occured to me that more and more people (myself included) are increasingly annoyed at ticket sales becoming "sold-out" and immediately eBay becomes awash with them.
However, recently I have noticed a couple of gigs which surprised me - and the recent sales in the Classified here have only added to my suspicions.
Recently Keane announced a UK tour, and Kylie announced a NYE gig. eBay was/is awash with tickets from both - none of which are selling particularaly well.
I'd have thought both would have been pretty much snapped up - the only downside I can see is Kylie's short notice.
It seems, on the limited (very limited) research I have done concerning these two particular artists that the tickets sold out, and yet in some instances are selling on eBay at, or in some cases cheaper, than face-value.
Indeed, I saw Madonna's "Confessions Tour" this year in three different seats - two top-teir and one second-teir priced tickets at LESS than the face-value of ONE top-tier! What's that all about?
Anyone any opinions?
You've always been able to get tickets of ebay for less than face value.
The bigger the gig the more people trying to sell.
You just have to keep an eye out for the auctions ending.
the promoters also have tactics such as releasing unannounced ticket allocations or venues after an initial sell out and not delivering tickets till the last minute.
No it hasn't.A friend of mine bought 4 ticket for the Diana Concert for £200 and sold them for £600 within 10 minutes, just before ebay pulled them.
The last 2 concerts I went to were U2 and Peter gabriel, both tickets were bought from ebay at 50% face value, peter gabriel ones were in row 3, i've never ever been able to get seats as close to the stage when buying through Ticketmaster :suspect:
I was watching some DJ Shadow tickets (was getting worried that seetickets were going to seriously screw up my order). With a week to go to the gig, plenty were selling for substantially less than face value.
I've noticed a lot of promoters adding extra dates to tours - seems to be becoming the norm now to do at least two London shows on a tour. With Keane, I'm not convinced they can fill Wembley Arena twice over in the middle of the week. Supply exceeding demand will always cause lower prices.
It's like the touts' own prices - they can do well in the hours beforehand if there's people around desperate enough to pay inflated prices to get in. When it starts looking like they'll have tickets left, they become the desperate ones and try to get them shifted at any price. I find the ticket vendors are leaving it later and later to dispatch tickets - down to single figures of days beforehand. People generally aren't willing to trust an ebay seller with their money on the promise of getting the tickets when they turn up, and by the time they're "in hand" it's all getting a bit close to the gig.
For bands that I'm less bothered about, I'm going to try getting tickets off ebay in the days before the gig - there seem to be some real bargains to be had.
I won a pair of Guillemots tickets for their Kings College gig this year for 99p!
KennyVader
19-12-2006, 22:26
Yep I've seen quite a few things with cheap tickets off ebay. If it's something that would make me cry if I missed it, then I'll get certain tickets off Ticketmaster etc, but if it's something I'd like to see but if I miss it so be it, then I leave it to eBay or the Gumtree.
I'd only buy from ebay within two weeks of the gig or event, as things have been postponed on me before (always long before two weeks ahead though) and I fear getting money back off an ebay seller in those circumstances would be a huge hassle. Of course, all the paypal and ebay "guarantees" run out about 45 days after the sale, so if you buy off someone on ebay and the tickets never turn up - well you're pretty stuffed.
Some people strike it lucky and have a bidding war break out on their tickets, but even so after ebay and paypal fees are deducted, it's a hard and risky way to make a few pounds. Especially on something like ebay where everything's recorded and the Inland Revenue have access to the transaction records.
GProject
19-12-2006, 23:54
There was always going to be a sort of downturn in this kind of thing, just because of consumer 'learning' if nothing else.
People know eBay now - how to use it, what to expect, and (in some cases) how to exploit it. Back when only a few people would buy-in tickets and sell them on eBay, the prices were much higher. These days, everybody is trying it, some just buying tickets in order to sell them later. Meanwhile, the consumer knows that going into frantic bidding wars for tickets as soon after they hit eBay is mostly fruitless.
So, more tickets on eBay, same amount of consumers buying (with eBay knowledge), the average price per auction is bound to come down.
DeadKenny
20-12-2006, 02:38
I do think the touts are sometimes overbuying and struggle to get the price they want. The promoters are also clever at playing the touts when it comes to releasing tickets.
Still doesn't stop the touts being scum.
No it hasn't.A friend of mine bought 4 ticket for the Diana Concert for £200 and sold them for £600 within 10 minutes, just before ebay pulled them.
That's a bit scummy really.
I mean, whatever you think of Diana, it is for charidee and yet he's just making pure profit from it.
:nono:
Yes and no. This year I've nabbed two £16 Goldfrapp tickets for £17 total, one £17.50 Cardigans ticket for £11 and fully expect to nab two £49 Kylie tickets for peanuts.
But some have held their value - Snow Patrol, for example, were going for well above face recently.
Something that made me laugh was a lass in our office who bought Kylie tickets for the MEN next year - combined ace value about £80 ; she's trying to flog them in a "raffle" 20 tickets at a tenner each. If the remaining money were going to charity, then fine ; however as far as I can see, it's lining her own pockets.
When buying gig tickets, I normally get a couple more than I need - however this is because I know I have friends who for one reason or another can't buy tickets themselves (they're on holiday/broke at the moment/etc) and I know I will be able to get rid of them. Never touted them or sold them on at more than face value. As a live music lover, I hate touts.
spida1998
20-12-2006, 08:48
Because it's so easy now, supply is tending to exceed demand - especially for the big gigs. Even though Arctic Monkeys sold out LCCC twice last week, I'm expecting to get in for around a tenner in the 2 weeks before the gig.
However, big artist in small venue will always equal big profit - Noel Gallagher at ULU, Pearl Jam at the Astoria, Radiohead on their theatre tour this year...they're the tickets that are still like gold dust.
Arena gigs are much easier to get into for face value or below.
i accept that promoters are adding extra dates far more freely than in the past but disagree that touting is on the wane. Far from it in fact. examples from the last month
arcade fire tickets - face value £20 being sold for £110
genesis tickets (a block) - face value £75 being sold for £300 plus
Snow patrol at wembley arena, kasabian standing tickets at earls court....i could go on.
I know a part time ebay tout quite well and hes always going on about it. He compares it (morally and intellectually) to picking shares to trade on the stock market. Again, supply and demand. Researches the potential to add extra dates etc and checks album sales.
Have to admit I've got two pairs of Genesis tickets up on Ebay at the moment. Me and a friend both hit the pre-sale to maximise our chances of getting good seats - he got better seats at Manchester, me at Twickers so I'm flogging off the spares. Both pairs have surpassed their face value with 9 days left on the auctions, but then they're both offering superb seats.
I think you stand more chance of making a profit if you sell early rather than closer to the gig date though.
A few years ago it would have been very easy to make a living as an Ebay tout but so many people are doing it now it is far more difficult to do so. A lot of people assume that touting is easy money so buy tickets to resell without actually knowing anything about the bands or their audiences which leaves them open to making a big loss. I;ve absolutely no sympathy with these people.
I really wanted to go to Roger Waters and, to a lesser extenet, Genesis and could have got great face value tickets in the pre sale. However the cost of them put me off so I decided not to bother. I will, however, keep an eye on ebay in the week or so before the gigs to see if can pick up some cheapies.
mikegray
20-12-2006, 11:28
Basically, what you want is not tickets for big gigs, you want tickets for medium sized bands in venues that are a bit too small. You can always pick up cheap tickets for shows in enormasheds, but the smaller academy type venues are more hit and miss.
I'm a big fan of extra dates, and bands who play arenas when they're not quite big enough. <£10 a pair a go-go.
I was lucky enough to get a manics ticket for the missus last month at less than it cost for them to post it! :help:
Basically, what you want is not tickets for big gigs, you want tickets for medium sized bands in venues that are a bit too small. You can always pick up cheap tickets for shows in enormasheds, but the smaller academy type venues are more hit and miss.
Exactly right. A prime example is the last REM tour. Tickets for gigs in the arenas and stadiums were easy to get hold off cheaplu whereas the Hammersmith Apollo ones were like rocking horse poo.
meat puppet
20-12-2006, 14:00
I wouldn't buy tickets off Ebay, even if I was desperate. But I laughed like a drain when I saw that there were several sellers of 'Tool' tickets for the SECC on Ebay trying desperately to sell...........while there were still plenty of tickets available from the SECC right up to the day of the gig !
The Radiohead concerts this year were also not booked up despite dire warnings........when we arrived at Blackpool they were actually selling tickets on the door !! While the touts trailed around outside looking :( :thumbs:
I hope this bubble has burst..............I implore anyone, no matter how desperate DO NOT BUY TICKETS FROM EBAY AT MORE THAN THE FACE VALUE. If you have spare tickets that your struggling to sell, then put them on scarletmist, where you cannot sell for anything more than face value.
The Radiohead concerts this year were also not booked up despite dire warnings........when we arrived at Blackpool they were actually selling tickets on the door !! While the touts trailed around outside looking :( :thumbs:
That's exactly what happened on the previous 'small venue' tour. I susepct Radiohead hold back a certain number of tickets deliberately.
i accept that promoters are adding extra dates far more freely than in the past but disagree that touting is on the wane. Far from it in fact. examples from the last month
arcade fire tickets - face value £20 being sold for £110
genesis tickets (a block) - face value £75 being sold for £300 plus
Snow patrol at wembley arena, kasabian standing tickets at earls court....i could go on.
I know a part time ebay tout quite well and hes always going on about it. He compares it (morally and intellectually) to picking shares to trade on the stock market. Again, supply and demand. Researches the potential to add extra dates etc and checks album sales.
Thats one way of putting it. :lol:
I love looking at ebay and seeing sellers struggle to sell tickets in the run up to gigs, in fact I love seeing touts in general getting ****** over :D
I'm surprised the promoters/ticket vendors haven't taken to auctioning tickets themselves, given the demand is there. If people out there are willing to pay silly money, I'm sure they'd rather have it than touts. Maybe auction the prime seats in the front rows, value over a certain amount goes to charity?
I have attended George Michael and U2 concerts recently free of charge simply because I bought extra tickets and sold them on ebay. The profit I made on the tickets effectively paid for mine. I think GM charging £100 per decent seat is taking the...... well.... michael! Tickets were sold on ebay as soon as I bought them.
Same with U2.
Missed Robbie and had I not being ill at the time could of bought MK tickets for £10 each on ebay the days before the concert.
I have attended George Michael and U2 concerts recently free of charge simply because I bought extra tickets and sold them on ebay. The profit I made on the tickets effectively paid for mine. I think GM charging £100 per decent seat is taking the...... well.... michael! Tickets were sold on ebay as soon as I bought them.
Same with U2.
I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to brag about your touting on an anti-touting thread. :shrug:
Oh and I just love the fact that you are complaining about how much he charged for tickets then proceeded to flog them at off at an even higher price.
This isn't an anti touting thread it's a discussion on whether the bubble has burst.
As people have said it seems to be the large gigs that are readily available cheap while the larger bands playing intimate gigs still sell at a premium.
I haven't dabbled much in ebay tickets but I did sell a pair of Radiohead SBE tickets for £300 and a single for £200 a couple of years ago
Well it may not be strictly an anti-tuting thread but the mahority of people posting on here seem to be in agreement that people who do it deserve everything they get if they lose money. It seem odd to me then that someone would choose to brag about how much cash they made on a couple of gigs.
Tomfoolery
20-12-2006, 18:13
I love looking at ebay and seeing sellers struggle to sell tickets in the run up to gigs, in fact I love seeing touts in general getting ****** over :D
Especially if you're ever outside a gig once it's already started as I was recently after taking photos at one.
They're all pretty much running around panicking trying to sell their leftover tickets that'll be worthless in an hour or so. :D
spida1998
20-12-2006, 18:31
Loads and loads of cheap tickets for Morrissey at the G-Mex on there now if anybody's interested, bet you could get in for a fiver.
KennyVader
21-12-2006, 01:14
I'm surprised the promoters/ticket vendors haven't taken to auctioning tickets themselves, given the demand is there. If people out there are willing to pay silly money, I'm sure they'd rather have it than touts. Maybe auction the prime seats in the front rows, value over a certain amount goes to charity?
It's only a matter of time - all the best theatre tickets in the US (perhaps that should be theater) are already sold on a kind of auction, or at astronomic premium (such as $250 per seat for front stalls) - including by the "respectable" big names such as Ticketmaster. I am sure concert tickets in the US are like this too, or will be soon.
I can assure you that charity is definitely not involved in the Ticketmaster premium sales!
I think we will see similar things starting here at some point :(
mikegray
21-12-2006, 07:19
I think we will see similar things starting here at some point :(
Already happened for the Genesis tour. :|
stillill
21-12-2006, 11:02
I think we will see similar things starting here at some point :(
Serves everyone right for complaining about eBay auctions over the years.
People who didn't get tickets should just have said "oh I'll have to be quicker next time - free market economics etc". Instead they want Government intervention (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/5187012.stm) so they can be lazy. Ticketmaster et al wouldn't have taken any notice.
Now Ticketmaster have noticed and they want the cream for themselves. And Government's happy because they now get a bigger share of the VAT if tickets go for more at official auctions.
The only glimmer of hope is yes, auctions have declined in profitability due to promoters adding extra dates etc, so maybe even Ticketmaster won't make that much more.
KennyVader
01-01-2007, 19:23
Yay! Just picked up some tickets for Kylie at Wembley later this week at about 1/3 of their face value :clap:
Now just got to hope the Royal Mail manage to get them here in time, but I paid for Special Delivery, so if they don't, I'll be paypal-chargebacking.
Amazing how many ebayers are suddenly ill or on holiday this week so they can't go to their Kylie concert :suspect:! I am sure if I'd paid upwards of £50 a ticket plus booking fee I'd damn well be going, ill or not!
Long live the ebay last-minute ticket shop :D
mikegray
01-01-2007, 19:35
£7.50 inc P&P for one for Saturday for me. :)
KennyVader
01-01-2007, 21:37
£7.50 inc P&P for one for Saturday for me. :)
:notworthy :lol:
You can't even buy an album for that
Excellent - just as I'd hoped. Been watching these for weeks and they are just tumbling. Minutes ago a single Wembley ticket went for £21 and a decent pair for £66. Dithering now about bidding on a £50 pair with no bids about to end but they're upper tier ... :thinking: I suspect if I hold my nerve I'll get a good pair for peanuts - probably for the post-first night midweek gigs.
mikegray
01-01-2007, 22:13
:notworthy :lol:
You can't even buy an album for that
It's actually my second ticket - I have a ticket right at the front, but my fiancee said she'd keep me company on the long drive if I could get her a ticket for less than a tenner. I think she thought I wouldn't manage it. :D
Anyone who fancies paying full price - there are some great tickets being released at face value by Ticketmaster, well worth keeping an eye out. Should devalue the touts holding even further, too.
If it came across as bragging I didn't mean it to. :(
Let me put it another way....
I'm a married man with kids and wanted to see George but wasn't prepared to pay £60 per ticket. Firstly it's way over the top, and secondly as a person with kids and living to a budget quite frankly I have better things to do with £120.
So I bought extra tickets and the profit from selling them on ebay paid for the two tickets I kept, that way I got to see George FOC, and free is always good.
Does that make me a bad person? :thinking:
mikegray
01-01-2007, 23:19
Does that make me a bad person? :thinking:
No, but it means someone else had to pay over the odds when they wouldn't have had to - you may not be a bad person, but you're part of a wider problem. If everyone behaved as you did, then theoretically half of the audience for any show would have to pay over the odds - does that sound like a good idea to you?
No, but it means someone else had to pay over the odds when they wouldn't have had to - you may not be a bad person, but you're part of a wider problem. If everyone behaved as you did, then theoretically half of the audience for any show would have to pay over the odds - does that sound like a good idea to you?
But you're not complaining when it goes the other way eh? ;)
ian turner
02-01-2007, 11:05
I'm a married man with kids and wanted to see George but wasn't prepared to pay £60 per ticket. Firstly it's way over the top, and secondly as a person with kids and living to a budget quite frankly I have better things to do with £120.
Does that make me a bad person? :thinking:
Surely you should have put the money towards taking your kids to disneyland and buying them some new shoes !!!! :oh-hum:
Just picked up two good lower tier Kylie tickets for this Friday's (very sold out) MEN gig for £67 (£98 + fees face.) Could probably have done better if I had held my nerve but was geting a bit bored wih trawling each night.
mikegray
07-01-2007, 21:54
Just picked up two good lower tier Kylie tickets for this Friday's (very sold out) MEN gig for £67 (£98 + fees face.) Could probably have done better if I had held my nerve but was geting a bit bored wih trawling each night.
Nice work. Wembley's very inept security meant that the £7.50 ticket we bought resulted in my missus being right at the front with me, as everyone moved out of their seats anyway to go to the catwalk leaving at least three seats empty in each row in the front blocks. :notworthy Am in one of the A blocks for Friday. :clap:
Also saw Gwnneth Paltrow having a boogey to Hand On Your Heart, which is something you can't say every day. :D
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