Camera damaged but listed as good condition?

[Fozzybear]

I bought a camera on ebay which was listed as:

In full working order.

In good overall condition.

View finder is clean and bright.

Some signs of use but not abuse.

but although it is operational it is damaged, having obviously been dropped as there are cracks in the plastic, one panel is distorted and has a chip out of it. There is also a LOT of wear on the lens mount and flash hotshoe. The photos conveniently do not show the damaged areas and one of the photos (which would have shown the hotshoe) turns out to be of a different camera, which is rather suspicious.

I emailed the seller asking for an explaination and he says he's used the camera but didn't notice the damage, which I find astonishing. I ask for a part refund (£25) to reflect the damaged condition and my need to repair it but he refuses, asking me to return it for a refund of what I paid. At this time he admits fault that it was mis-listed.

Am I unreasonable to ask for the return postage to be refunded too? Since it is down to his 'mistakes' that I have a damaged camera should he not bear that cost? He says he doesn't have a returns policy but I wonder if he has a fraud policy. :oh-hum:

He's left feedback for me, but I've yet to do so...

[alsemail]

DId you pay with PayPal. If so I would open open a dispute as the item was not sold as advertised. They will then have a record of all correspondance between you from the time the dispute was opened, however you may not receive your postage costs back as I don't believe this is covered by the dispute policy.

If you paid via other methods I would be wary about just returning it without reporting it to ebay. Just because you return it doesn't mean he will refund you.

[Fozzybear]

I paid by paypal. Started 'conversing' through ebay but their email thing doesn't allow long enough messages to describe the problem so ended up going on to normal email.

Probably going to end up getting rogered I guess. I'm going right off buying from people online, I've already had bad experiences on ebay and on the classifieds here too.

If I send it back and he denies seeing it or starts screwing me around what can I do - will paypal refund? Where do I stand?

I've taken photos of the damage and have sent him the links:

http://www.zen95777.zen.co.uk/f90x/DSC_7736.jpg
http://www.zen95777.zen.co.uk/f90x/DSC_7737.jpg
http://www.zen95777.zen.co.uk/f90x/DSC_7740.jpg

[alsemail]

FROM NOW ON DO EVERYTHING VIA THE PAYPAL DISPUTE CONSOLE

If you go via the Paypal dispute console then Paypal have a tracking of all correspondance. You then return it to the seller via Special Delivery, as it is over £30. You give Paypal the tracking no for the parcel and can now prove he has received it. As soon as you file a dispute Paypal will freeze the sellers account for the amount you paid, they will not be able to withdraw it.
Once you file a dispute the seller has a certain amount of time to respond to all correspondance, if they don't you win and get your money back (and the camera) automatically,or if they agree to the refund, once the seller recieves the itam Paypal will refund you also.

You probably will not get the postage charges refunded but I'd push for them as the item is significantly not as described.

Once you go into the dispute console in Paypal it is fairly self-explanatory, it has a guide and gives more comprehensive instructions as to what happens next, timeframes etc.


Sorry you are having a bad experience on ebay, I have between buying and selling over 1400 transactions and only a couple have ever had any problems that worked out eventually. My only tip would be (and I apologise if I am teaching you to suck eggs) is to read all descriptions comprehensively, check the traders feedback well, if they have any negatives read them, see what they have sold before, and if unsure ask them a question or just walk away.

Good Luck with the outcome.


Edit - Just saw the pics....shocking condition and outright porkies in the description....signs of wear, but not abuse.......yeah if you work in a current warzone maybe

[Fozzybear]

I can't start a dispute until tomorrow apparently.

I'd emailed him a copy of the pics and asked if he'd play fair if I returned it but I've just sent a follow up saying to scrub that last email as I'm going through the dispute process instead. Might shake him up a bit and hopefully give me a bit more cover - unless ebay is as toothless as some people say!


I wasn't sure if I was over-reacting so I'm glad you think it's a bad mis-listing, it's reassuring in a way.

[dvds2000]

whats his feedback like?

I don't see the problem TBH, he said to return it for a refund, I would ask for return postage too. I don't think he has done anything wrong (well apart from mis descibe it!)

[Fozzybear]

He won't give return postage - I asked. He's become quite hostile and I'm getting a bad vibe from him. He said early on:

"Sorry to hear that you have a problem with this camera,I know this camera is in full working order as I used it over the Christmas/ New Year period"

so surely he would have known it was damaged? I noted that he avoids stating anything about physical condition. Since then my request for a part refund and then a refund including the cost of returning it have had more and more angry responses. Anyway - it's all on hiatus until I can put in a dispute on ebay.

[IAmATeaf]

You need to file a dispute with both ebay and paypal and now that you've made him aware he may well withdraw the funds if he wants to play dirty.

[Fozzybear]

Well I may as well throw the camera in the bin, forget it and end the uncertainty if that's the case. Are you telling me that the only way I get a refund via this is if he hasn't removed the cash from his paypal account?

I've gone quickly from indifference to stressed out by this and it seems every time I do something I get told it's wrong. No-ones fault and I appreciate advice but why is it always after I need it and always "you shouldn't have done that...". :(

Great weekend I've had - not!

[andy_dts]

If you file a dispute under the not as described option on Paypal & the seller disagrees then they're going to ask you to get confirmation from a third party expert that it really is damaged and not as described. You'll only get a certain amount of time to do this aswell otherwise you'll just lose the claim.

You'd be better off just doing a chargeback as you're going to have to mess about taking the camera to someone who Paypal are ok with and then sending the info to paypal. Why should you have to do all that when someone else has sent something thats clearly ******.

I had something arrive damaged a while ago and it wasnt really somethign i could take to anyone so ended up losing the claim & stuck with a broken item & no refund.

Even though the damage can be seen in the photos it probably wont be enough enough for them.

[dvds2000]

I've gone quickly from indifference to stressed out by this and it seems every time I do something I get told it's wrong. No-ones fault and I appreciate advice but why is it always after I need it and always "you shouldn't have done that...". :(


If thats aimed at me, you didn't say in your first post that he had refused the postage and you were getting angry emails from him.
Taking that into account I would chargeback.

[monkey_d_luffy]

Well I may as well throw the camera in the bin, forget it and end the uncertainty if that's the case. Are you telling me that the only way I get a refund via this is if he hasn't removed the cash from his paypal account?

No. They will take the money out of his bank account if necessary.

Go through the proper procedures. If the camera works, it isn't the absolute end of the world if you lose out - you can always leave him some lovely negative feedback.

Do NOT chargeback unless you want to seriously annoy Paypal.

[d2cracker]

Well I may as well throw the camera in the bin, forget it and end the uncertainty if that's the case. Are you telling me that the only way I get a refund via this is if he hasn't removed the cash from his paypal account?

I've gone quickly from indifference to stressed out by this and it seems every time I do something I get told it's wrong. No-ones fault and I appreciate advice but why is it always after I need it and always "you shouldn't have done that...". :(

Great weekend I've had - not!

Even if the guy has no money in his paypal account, paypal give you the money back then chase the seller, they freeze his account and contact him via email, letter then legal action, you are cover buy buyer protection upto £500 via ebay and paypal. Just make sure you send it recorded delivery as long as it has a tracking ref you covered. Id personally send it 2nd class recorded. lol

When you do the dispute you have plenty of space to type your complaint, Even put in that the seller has offered a refund but you are completing this to be safe and covered. You will have no problems at all

HTH
Si

[IAmATeaf]

No. They will take the money out of his bank account if necessary.

Go through the proper procedures. If the camera works, it isn't the absolute end of the world if you lose out - you can always leave him some lovely negative feedback.

Do NOT chargeback unless you want to seriously annoy Paypal.

Urmm, I don;t think that's true, they can only take money out of your bank account if you go ahead and authorise it. If the seller has withdrawn the funds and the buyer wins the case then all that would normally happen is the sellers account would be in the red and the buyer would be told sorry no funds in the account to give you.

[Furgy]

I think paypal would send debt collectors to clear the sellers balance

[Fozzybear]

Well I got about 2 hours sleep last night as my mind was buzzing about this. No clear answer here and I'm too tired ot make a decision now. Will have to think about it over the next day or so.

[d2cracker]

you will find that paypal is a regitered bank in the UK and have to follo the baking code. Fozzybear dontworry abot it you are fully covered.

My best mat bought a mobile of ebay and it ws barred from all networks, he contacte them and he was refunded he mey there and then.

Have you filled the dispute, if you wish to put your mind at rest call them. 08707 307 191

I find it hard that people do not understand that if you withdraw from paypal. It clearly states that the Remeber the gave the guy the mony to his bank. They have all the info and the powers to do so.

[JOV]

Well I got about 2 hours sleep last night as my mind was buzzing about this. No clear answer here and I'm too tired ot make a decision now. Will have to think about it over the next day or so.


No point in losing sleep over a thing like this - it is not a life or death matter.

[Fozzybear]

I know, and I started out feeling very uninterested but as the emails went on I got more and more angry with this guy. I really don't want that and am considering a neg feedback and then not bothering to do anything more - I don't want the stress that this seems to be causing me. When I think of it I get tense (I am a little now) and I don't know why really. Just one of those things that's got into my gears. :cuckoo: :lol: I think I'm done with ebay though - I'm fed up with the kind of people trading on it.

I do apologise for writing posts here like an arse, I've been passing on my anger to the members here and really shouldn't have done.

[IAmATeaf]

All you have to initially is start a dispute, then wait and reply to any emails you may get.

[dvds2000]

I would certainly do a chargeback - I wouldn't let him get away with it

And I would check some of the advice on this thread before taking it as granted, cos some of it is, frankly, garbage.

In fact this is a classic thread showing why you shouldn't take too much advice from people posting on the internet :nuts:

No. They will take the money out of his bank account if necessary.

no they won't, they have no authority at all to do that.

Even if the guy has no money in his paypal account, paypal give you the money back then chase the seller,

Not if it's not covered buy the buyer protection, which isn't always the case.

you will find that paypal is a regitered bank in the UK and have to follo the baking code. Fozzybear dontworry abot it you are fully covered.

Paypal aren't a registered bank, and even if they were where in the banking code does it say a bank has to refund someone if they recieve something from a private seller thats not as described?

I find it hard that people do not understand that if you withdraw from paypal. It clearly states that the Remeber the gave the guy the mony to his bank. They have all the info and the powers to do so.

I don't understand that at all. They have all the info and powers to do what? What don't people understand about if you withdraw from paypal?

[kingjames]

no they won't, they have no authority at all to do that.

They used to. Maybe that's in the US.

[malsa]

Open a significantly not as described claim on paypal.
Send the camera back via a trackable method, and you *will* get your money back.

[Fozzybear]

Thanks for that - I've just put in a paypal claim. I nearly let it go but noticed that in addition to the other problems the foam mirror damper seems to be starting to perish or has been knocked as quite a bit of the right side damper is missing.

I may buy another camera in the meantime, but I think I'll buy one in person this time.

[Bapapapa]

Don't paypal keep a certain percentage of a successful claim for themselves?

If so, it might have been cheaper/easier/quicker to take the seller's offer of a refund and swallow the postage cost - surely it couldn't have been much more than a fiver..? :shrug:

Then neg the crap out of him.. :lol:

[malsa]

No, Paypal only charge the seller during any transaction.

[Bapapapa]

I know they do for transactions.

I'm talking about claims under their 'buyer's protection' policy wotsit..

[malsa]

They charge the seller £7

[Bapapapa]

OK. :thumbs:

Anyway, it looks like a CC chargeback will be the only option if Fozzy's not willing to swallow the return postage..

If you file a claim for a 'significantly not-as-described' item, we will generally require you to return the item to the seller, at your own expense.
Paypal User Agreement (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_pbp-outside#fees-policy)

Again, I'd advise taking the original offer of a refund rather than all this dispute/chargeback palava and put the whole matter quickly to bed.