View Full Version : Are you wasting over £700 a year on electricity?
mattymoo
28-09-2008, 12:01
Around 6 months ago I capped my rate with Eon energy and they supplied a nifty little energy usage meter. This is connected near the main meter and can measure the current level of consumption within the house, second by second. It also calculates dialy and monthly costs for you.
I started out with good intentions and replaced normal light bulbs with low energy bulbs but the typical consumption would be around 800 watts at any given time.
Last friday I was made redundant so decided to spend some time working out how much we could save and this is how we did it.
We took a base figure of 955 watts per hour. This is based on my daughter needing nearly every light on upstairs at night - we call it Blackpool illuminations.
First of all we turned all the lights off - 877 watts.
Then we turned off the TV / DVD / games console in kids rooms. This bought it down to 845.
Then I put all the AV gear in main bedroom on one socket and left clock radios and bedside lamps on the rest. By turning off the AV socket the figure came down to 759.
Next came the kitchen. Every appliance off bar the cooker, fridge and small aquarium - 736.
Next came my office. Laptop, desktop (on 24/7), 2 x printers and hi-fi etc. This bought the figure down to 413.
Now for the living room. Turned off the Dell PC - 278.
Then I put the 2 x sky plus boxes and TV on one multisocket. The AV amp, subwoofer, DVD player / recorder, games consoles etc on the rest. Turned off all bar the Sky+ and the figure came down to 213.
Finally the utility room. Left the freezer on but turned washing machine off. This was not running before and had no digital display but the figure came down to 195.
So - started with 955 and came down to 195. This means that when "idling" the house is only using 20% of the power it was before. I'm absolutely gobsmacked.
Now, I'm not such a tight wad that things like TV will be banned but it will simply be a case of turning power on when we need it. At the current rates the meter is suggesting we will pay £15 a month instead of £75 a month. That's £60 a month difference - or £720 a year. I know that we will not see all of this saving because of high power consumption items like washing machine, oven etc but it is still a big saving.
'watts per hour' makes no sense.
mattymoo
28-09-2008, 12:15
Why not?
At the highest it was using 0.95 kwh
Now it is 0.195 kwh.
Watts the problem :)
PS: This is the energy monitor device - http://www.currentcost.com/support-1.shtml
Bapapapa
28-09-2008, 12:33
Yeah we can all save energy by living like 18th century luddites..
Where's Captain Obvious when you need him.
fluffyfred
28-09-2008, 12:36
We got one as we went onto their energy saver package. We have managed to take the average down from 18 kWh per day to 14.
Hubby still isn't very energy conscious, but I think he will change when our Direct Debit has to go up again. We've got a 2 bedroom house but paying £94 for gas and elec at the moment. Based on our average yearly consumption, it should actually be £109 a month. It's cold in the house at the moment but I'm holding off having the heating on for as long as possible.
maddogsuk
28-09-2008, 12:41
I bought one of them too. Turns you into a bit of a Electricity whore.
I will agree with mattymoo that these things do make you concider how much power you are using. Mine usage sat at around 980watts. Turning off things such as my sub, laser printer etc. My usage now sits at around 550watts with my normal non-luddite usage.
When I'm at work its about 150watts until the Fridge \ Freezer and outside lights come on.
nigel_williams
28-09-2008, 12:44
I went onto their capped rate a few months ago, switched from nPower. They promised one of those energy usage meters but nothing has turned up yet. Would like to call them, but Pipex have managed to disconnect my phone line (that's another story).
Like a lot of people, I've switched just about all the lights I can to low energy, I even got some low energy spotlights for the kitchen from Tesco last month. But I do have a lot of AV equipment/PCs etc, so I would like to know just how much they draw on idle. I'm not sure I completely trust what I read online about phone chargers etc. PC Pro did a test on a couple using quite sensitive equipment but the draw in idle was so small it didn't register.
mattymoo
28-09-2008, 12:48
I did turn off the phone charger in the hall but the figure was not noticeably different.
In fact, the monitor reading does fluctuate - presumably things like thermostats clicking on off / hard drives powering up etc.
As for Bapapapa - the kit is all still there - only turned on when needed. How does that make me a luddite?
maddogsuk
28-09-2008, 12:49
I'm not sure I completely trust what I read online about phone chargers etc. PC Pro did a test on a couple using quite sensitive equipment but the draw in idle was so small it didn't register.Just tried my Nokia E65 charger. With the phone unplugged zero watts, plug the phone in and it goes up to 5 watts.
Bapapapa
28-09-2008, 13:07
As for Bapapapa - the kit is all still there - only turned on when needed. How does that make me a luddite?:D I was imagining you and the family whiling away the longer evenings huddled round a single candle listening to the BBC on a windup radio.. :lol:
Realistically though, you won't be saving anywhere near £700pa because when you actually use the equipment you'll be losing the 'not on standby' saving.. if you see what I mean.
You've also go the inconvenience of bending over and switching stuff on and off at the plug - **** that!! :lol:
campdave
28-09-2008, 13:25
We've got one too, and I've gout our idle usage down to 65 watts (2x fridge, freezer, sky+ box, dect phones, freeview pvr, security system). Spikes a couple of times an hour as the fridge and freezer cool down.
Been tracking my actual usage by taking daily meter readings, and usually use 4-5 units per day (on a work day), just by things like turning PC off when it's not being used, being aware how much energy various lights use and using the most efficient ones, being efficent when cooking by using the oven to cook multiple items form warming later in the week, or steaming items so I'm using one ring instead of two.
Don't feel my quality of life has been compromised at all, and gone from spending about£40 per month on electric to more like £25
I hope you apologised to your daughter when it turned out it was in fact your office that was causing the big electricity bills :)
OliverScott
28-09-2008, 15:10
You won't be saving £720 a year. Assuming you have your heating turned on for quarter of the year, all this 'wasted' electricity would have just been becoming heat which in theory would have allowed you to have your heating turned down a bit. Also by not having this wasted heat you may extend the period for which you require the heating to be on by a few weeks each side of the winter...
Not going to make a BIG difference to your figure, but it always irritates me when 'green' campaigners don't take this into account when discussing this on TV shows.
Also note that though you save money by not leaving electrical equipment on all the time, if you use somthing like a computer 4 - 5 times during the course of the day and are turning it on and off each time, the wear and tear due to things like heat cycling may have an impact on the life of the machine. For commonly used machines I tend to recommend turning them on the first time they are needed during the course of the day, and only turning them off when they are used for the last time that day.
'watts per hour' makes no sense.
Aye. "Watts per hour" makes no sense.
Watts is a measure of the rate of energy consumption (i.e., J/s)
To say "Watts per hour" would have dimensions of J/s/s which doesn't mean anything useful. :dork:
the biggest surprise here is that you had to be made redundant (sorry to hear) before you started doing most of this. :oh-hum:
there has been so much publicity around, about keeping appliances on standby ...
and as arrowst said - your office alone was using 323/955 = 33% ! :nono:
If no one is in the flat, the only thing running is the fridge freezer. I never ever leave anything on standby, just wasting energy.
Around 6 months ago I capped my rate with Eon energy and they supplied a nifty little energy usage meter. This is connected near the main meter and can measure the current level of consumption within the house, second by second. It also calculates dialy and monthly costs for you.
I started out with good intentions and replaced normal light bulbs with low energy bulbs but the typical consumption would be around 800 watts at any given time.
Last friday I was made redundant so decided to spend some time working out how much we could save and this is how we did it.
We took a base figure of 955 watts per hour. This is based on my daughter needing nearly every light on upstairs at night - we call it Blackpool illuminations.
First of all we turned all the lights off - 877 watts.
Then we turned off the TV / DVD / games console in kids rooms. This bought it down to 845.
Then I put all the AV gear in main bedroom on one socket and left clock radios and bedside lamps on the rest. By turning off the AV socket the figure came down to 759.
Next came the kitchen. Every appliance off bar the cooker, fridge and small aquarium - 736.
Next came my office. Laptop, desktop (on 24/7), 2 x printers and hi-fi etc. This bought the figure down to 413.
Now for the living room. Turned off the Dell PC - 278.
Then I put the 2 x sky plus boxes and TV on one multisocket. The AV amp, subwoofer, DVD player / recorder, games consoles etc on the rest. Turned off all bar the Sky+ and the figure came down to 213.
Finally the utility room. Left the freezer on but turned washing machine off. This was not running before and had no digital display but the figure came down to 195.
So - started with 955 and came down to 195. This means that when "idling" the house is only using 20% of the power it was before. I'm absolutely gobsmacked.
Now, I'm not such a tight wad that things like TV will be banned but it will simply be a case of turning power on when we need it. At the current rates the meter is suggesting we will pay £15 a month instead of £75 a month. That's £60 a month difference - or £720 a year. I know that we will not see all of this saving because of high power consumption items like washing machine, oven etc but it is still a big saving.
Did they give you the device for free? Fancy one of them myself.
Aye. "Watts per hour" makes no sense.
Watts is a measure of the rate of energy consumption (i.e., W/s)
To say "Watts per hour" would have dimensions of W/s/s which doesn't mean anything useful. :dork:
Makes perfect sense to me :shrug:
1000 watts per hour = a unit of electricity.
sidebog7
28-09-2008, 16:20
Makes perfect sense to me :shrug:
1000 watts per hour = a unit of electricity.
kWh is thousands of watts multiplied by time in hours not thousands of watts per hour (which would be kW/h and meaningless)
Bapapapa
28-09-2008, 16:21
Also remember if you're on a dual rate then for 5/6 hours a night you're saving even less than the OP has calculated for everything on standby...
Our biggest energy savings moneywise has been never using the immersion to heat our water. And to use the dishwasher, washing machine and most importantly the frigging tumble dryer :| during the wee cheaper hours whenever possible..
kWh is thousands of watts multiplied by time in hours not thousands of watts per hour (which would be kW/h and meaningless)
Are you trying to confuse me :D
One unit of electricity is exactly equal to 1000 watts of power used for 1 hour.
Which is what I think I said :thinking:
"1000 watts per hour = a unit of electricity."
sidebog7
28-09-2008, 16:42
http://www.homepower.com/view/?file=HP88_pg106_WordPower
Are you trying to confuse me :D
One unit of electricity is exactly equal to 1000 watts of power used for 1 hour.
Which is what I think I said :thinking:
"1000 watts per hour = a unit of electricity."
Watts of power used for 1 hour => Power multiplied by time => (for example) kWH
Watts per hour => Power divided by time => meaningless
If you really want to save in the long run wouldnt you start changing some of the electrical items for lower powered ones? ie. desktop computer(200w+) to laptop (60w)?
Watts of power used for 1 hour => Power multiplied by time => (for example) kWH
Watts per hour => Power divided by time => meaningless
So you are saying that what is commonly said is not correct, although you know what it means :thinking:
Just as people asking for their equipment to be PAT tested?
pyrogena
28-09-2008, 17:56
When I lived in Canada my heating was electric so I really noticed some nasty spikes in usage over the winter months. It made me absolutley fanatical about wasted energy and costs. When I leave a room, the light goes off. Nothing gets left on standby.
It does my head in at my mum's house. She insists on leaving the light on in the doggie room in the evening "in case they get lonely". They just have to walk into the kitchen and there's someone there!! :|
I'll have a go at explaining the "watts per hour" confusion...
Watts is a measurement of the speed of power consumption - think of it like miles per hour in a car.
So if you are looking at one of those meters which says how many watts you are currently using, and that figure goes up, the speed of your power usage is increasing - a bit like increasing speed in that car.
When you work out the total power you have used, you need to multiply how fast you were using the power by how long you were using it - in the same way you work out how far you have travelled by multiplying how fast you were going at by how long you have been travelling.
This is the way we are charged for electricity - the kWh. This is 1000 Watts (the k is the 1000) used for one hour. It is not watts per hour, in the same way you would not say the distance you have gone in a car is mph per hour. Instead you have used X watts for an hour, like you have travelled at X mph for an hour.
mattymoo
28-09-2008, 18:32
the biggest surprise here is that you had to be made redundant (sorry to hear) before you started doing most of this. :oh-hum:
there has been so much publicity around, about keeping appliances on standby ...
and as arrowst said - your office alone was using 323/955 = 33% ! :nono:
Yes - the redundancy has started me thinking about these things more so than before but I should clarify - the before figure was not for things sitting in standby mode apart from the computers and printers. TVs, dvd players, games consoles etc were all turned off at the unit but not the mains.
The house itself is quite efficient in terms of loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, double glazing and low energy light bulbs. The central heating has a room thermostat and timers.
I knew that leaving stuff on standby was a waste but with things like VCR's and DVD players - I didn't realise that cumulalively they were using so much power for their displays etc even though they were turned off.
The office is where I work from home - or at least until Jan 09 when my notice runs out. People have mentioned 200w computer / 60 w laptop. Its all the other stuff as well - printers, speakers and external HDD's that mounted up there.
The energy monitor came free with the tariff but you can find them on Ebay. Apparently Daily Mail have just finished a giveaway for a similar device called an Owl monitor. Expect to see them pop up on Ebay soon.
As for the physics debate on watts per hour etc - the display is showing you how many watts / k-watts you are currently using. If things remained static and you turned nothing on or off for an hour then that is your usage - i.e. 500 watts on the display for 2 hours would equal 1-kwh for charging purposes.
Point taken about the economy 7 tariff but that is programmed into the unit (times and dual tariffs) so I suspect its pricing is already taking this into account. Certainly something to be aware of if you get a different device though.
Don't care, got money to burn on it, just adding the tenth tv and leaving them all on 24/7.
OliverScott
28-09-2008, 18:55
When I lived in Canada my heating was electric so I really noticed some nasty spikes in usage over the winter months. It made me absolutley fanatical about wasted energy and costs. When I leave a room, the light goes off. Nothing gets left on standby.
It does my head in at my mum's house. She insists on leaving the light on in the doggie room in the evening "in case they get lonely". They just have to walk into the kitchen and there's someone there!! :|
But if your heating was electric, then there is no wasted energy due to leaving things on, during the period when your heating is on anyway!
The only place this 'wasted' energy can go eventually is into heat.
I think it's a valid exercise but one that could lead to inconvenience and being a bit paranoid. Then again it's green and saves you cash with little effort and moving a few plugs around. Just looking at my PC setup here and I have the laser printer on all the time despite barely using it. Unfortunately it doesn't have an on/off switch or it's own socket at the wall - maybe I should have a rethink.
Evil Badoshix
28-09-2008, 19:18
that's an awesome device! I'm scouring ebay for one at the moment.
I'm hoping it will help me justify ditching my old dell p4 xps for a core2duo/quad core jobbie. :D
I'm convinced my xps's responsible for my massive electricty bills.
joconnor
28-09-2008, 19:28
If no one is in the flat, the only thing running is the fridge freezer.
More importantly, if the only thing running is the fridge freezer and no one is in the flat, does it make a sound?
The only place this 'wasted' energy can go eventually is into heat.OK (maybe a bit to noise & an LED) but this heat might not be where it is needed (eg: in the office/spare room) or when it is needed (eg: overnight)
I've got an energy meter too. Idles at night at about 150watts. The subwoffer on my pc speaker system draws quite a bit of idle current so I turn that off when ever I remember. At the moment, it's at 270 watts and the kid is in bed. We're watching tv and on the computer so we're not huge burners.
cjanderson
28-09-2008, 19:48
how much must the elec bill be to be able to save £700 :eek:
I need to get better at turning pc off, i do it when out at work but not overnight (but do turn off monitor). but i am on ecomomy 7 so its cheap overnight. And i always turn cooker off when not in use and microwave doesn't have a clock thing).
New tv doesn't have an on/off switch, says the off switch is just the button on the remote but thats standby (no lights showing on tv though)
the xbox should probably be turned off overnight, as that has a huge power brick. The video would demand a secutiry code if not plugged in though constantly. then again when did i last video anything :D
mattymoo
28-09-2008, 20:20
CJ - £140 a month combined electric and gas.
Working at home through the winter pushes the heating cost somewhat but the larger part is definately the electric.
pyrogena
28-09-2008, 20:44
But if your heating was electric, then there is no wasted energy due to leaving things on, during the period when your heating is on anyway!
The only place this 'wasted' energy can go eventually is into heat.
You sound like the lady at the electricity company who told me to leave a light on as it would help heat the room...in a country where -20 was normal, a light ain't gonna do nothing.
Anyways, it was wasted to me as if I wasn't in a room then no heating was need - therefore leaving a light on/something on standby was pointless.
My wife can't stand that I switch everything off at the walls. Especially after she has been waiting 20 minutes for the kettle to boil :D
The only things I leave on standby are Sky+ and my AV amp (well, plugged in and switched on at the wall). It takes ages to get my levels right again.
BTW has anyone else noticed how many people charge their mobile phones at work? :eek:
I have a LG LCD television and annoyingly it doesn't seem to have an off button. Am I okay turning it off at the mains when I'm not using it? I've never really been sure about this so I have attached it to a Belkin surge protector to be on the safe side. I realise I won't be saving £££s by doing this but I like getting into the conservation mentality.
Also what about turning the router off overnight (I have no surge protector on that) - it has its own off switch - but I don't know if repeatedly turning it on and off each day is good for it...
Bapapapa
28-09-2008, 22:27
CJ - £140 a month combined electric and gas.
Working at home through the winter pushes the heating cost somewhat but the larger part is definately the electric.How much!! :eek:
We're a family of five with someone home practically 24/7 and your bills are way more than ours! :nuts:
I bought a TV from a guy a few weeks ago, he had a lovely house with an indoor pool, I'd be in that all day if I had one, he didn't use it much because it was too cold.
if he heats the pool, his electricity bill increases by £250 a month:eek:
even the rich are worrying about fuel bills
pyrogena
28-09-2008, 22:32
even the rich are worrying about fuel bills
That's how the rich stay rich. Ever been in a warm stately home?
KennyVader
28-09-2008, 22:50
I have a LG LCD television and annoyingly it doesn't seem to have an off button. Am I okay turning it off at the mains when I'm not using it? I've never really been sure about this so I have attached it to a Belkin surge protector to be on the safe side. I realise I won't be saving £££s by doing this but I like getting into the conservation mentality.
Also what about turning the router off overnight (I have no surge protector on that) - it has its own off switch - but I don't know if repeatedly turning it on and off each day is good for it...
Yes modern electronics should be absolutely fine with being turned on/off at the mains every day.
I do a lot of work with cinemas and for insurance reasons nearly all of them shut off the projection box power overnight, and they all do it either at the master switch for that screen or sometimes just at the distribution board for the entire projection suite. So for each screen that's a whole rack of amps, crossovers, cd players, monitors, automation controllers and Dolby kit all going on/off at once; if it's a digital screen then projector, servers, network stuff too.
In my flat I have all the stuff like TV, hi-fi, computer monitors/printer, etc etc plugged in through these remote controlled automation sockets that I got at B&Q, they are fairly clever in that you can pair different remotes to different sockets, but I have one master remote by the door which is paired to every single socket, so when I go out the door I hit that master "off" button and everything around the flat except for essentials like the fridge, heating, my server and the odd alarm clock are all then powered off at the mains. I have a couple more remotes in key places about the flat which control single devices like the TV so when I come in again I just turn on what I want. Been doing this over a year and my TV still works fine.
family man
29-09-2008, 06:44
I think I need one of these things. I am paying £255 pm for my gas and electricity (dont use much gas so most is electricity!)
campdave
29-09-2008, 06:59
For people looking at getting one of these devices, Southern Electric are giving them away on their "better plan" tarriff
Born2Bwild
29-09-2008, 07:34
I'm going to have solar panels installed when i build my house in a few years. It will cost me about £15k to get installed (or there abouts based on some figures i'm looking at), i'll never have to worry about usage, and anything i don't use the local electric company has to buy from me. Having 360 clear days a year sure does have its benefit.
My electric bill runs about £180 in the summer, £60 in the winter.
mburton2
29-09-2008, 07:39
I dont have one of them fancy devices (They use too much 'leccy!....JOKE, but I do have a couple of the plug-in meters, like from Aldi/Maplin)
But in the last 12months, I have made changes to my marine fish-tank:
Replaced the 4x 27w re-circ powerheads, with 4x 5w models (With the same water-flow)
Replaced 1x 110w pump, with a 64w model (with the same water-flow)
Looking to repalce the other 110w pump with another 64w version.
So thats a reduction of 134w , running 24/7....With another 64w reduction when I change the last big-pump
Reduced Lighting (110w of T5's + 80w of T8's) by 4hrs (to 6Hrs)...this should be OK for my FOWLER (Fish Only With Live Rock......no Corals)tank.
I'm HOPEING these changes will keep my 'Leccy bill static, and not increase
Having 360 clear days a year sure does have its benefit.
I don't believe you get that in the UK... oh, hold on checks location
Location: Arizona, USA
You jammy git. :razz:
Born2Bwild
29-09-2008, 07:52
I don't believe you get that in the UK... oh, hold on checks location
You jammy git. :razz:
Yup, i'm in Yuma AZ.
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/sunniest.php
This site gives slightly different info than i read elsewhere, this site says 242 clear days. They probably register that as days without a single cloud in the sky, whereas the 360 figure must be for days where the sky is blocked out by clouds (i.e. a typical London day :p )
rsykes2000
29-09-2008, 09:41
BTW has anyone else noticed how many people charge their mobile phones at work? :eek:
Mobiles (work and personal), laptop (personal but used at work), PSP (struggling to justify this, but I suppose I use it as a relaxation tool in breaks)... :)
Bapapapa
29-09-2008, 09:55
I think I need one of these things. I am paying £255 pm for my gas and electricity (dont use much gas so most is electricity!):eek:
mr starface
29-09-2008, 10:05
Its taken me so long to get all the setting correct for my home entertainment gear I'd be paranoid about losing them if I switched them off at night.
DVDWotcha
29-09-2008, 11:07
I guess the question really is what percentage of your elec bill is from standby and how much is actual use.
I recently replaced my TV with an LCD, the standby power rating of the LCD is just 0.2 watt. My new PVR uses just 0.9 watt (when not recording). No idea what my amp or sub use, however have to remember that it would take a long time for their replacement to recoup the cost through reduced electricity bills. Of course there's nothing wrong with them, so I'm not replacing them.
the thing that shocked me was Sky+ - it uses about 65w in use or in standby - so it gets tuned off at night now ( along with the pc , xbox etc.. )
i need to check the tumble dryer as it makes a humming noise when not in use - so that will be a usage of xx amounts per hour
Yup, i'm in Yuma AZ.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5637/yumaqg3.jpg
Sky boxes are terrible. When I switch mine to standby it makes no difference at all to the power consumption. I've got the bog standard common Pace one with the blue sky logo lit up in the middle.
Mr Flibble
29-09-2008, 15:18
Mobiles (work and personal), laptop (personal but used at work), PSP (struggling to justify this, but I suppose I use it as a relaxation tool in breaks)... :)
Same here, I charge up the PSP, the mobile, the bluetooth GPS unit I have for it. One of the many perks of working here :|
Ha, a thread about saving money and reducing power consumption by turning things off! Who'd a thunk it? :D
Well it sems that most products seem to want you to leave things on all the time, especially the "always online, always connected" type products they seem to be encouraging. Individually they may be small but as you can see it all adds up.
As for thermo cycling causing premature failure, I suspect it's a load of crock. Quite simply products aren't built to last these days (compared to a few decades ago) because of budget/cost cutting and in order to encourage people to get the next best thing. Flicking the on/off switch will not make any difference to the overall product lifespan.
If anyone is still looking for an energy monitor, Lidl has the plug-in type on offer for £6.99 from Oct 9th, they're also selling a remote controlled socket set for £12.99.
http://www.lidl.co.uk/uk/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20081009.index.ar10
They must be the only people who sell you a service and then encourage you to use it less!
Just Passing
04-10-2008, 21:15
As for thermo cycling causing premature failure, I suspect it's a load of crock. Quite simply products aren't built to last these days (compared to a few decades ago) because of budget/cost cutting and in order to encourage people to get the next best thing. Flicking the on/off switch will not make any difference to the overall product lifespan.
Err, no it's not & yes it does.
I spent years working in Electrical repairs and most of my work was products that had failed on power up. You are right that products aren't built to last like they used to be, due to budget constraints though but that only adds to the thermal cycling problem.
If anyone is still looking for an energy monitor, Lidl has the plug-in type on offer for £6.99 from Oct 9th, they're also selling a remote controlled socket set for £12.99.
http://www.lidl.co.uk/uk/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20081009.index.ar10
Picked up an Aldi monitor, however might go get the remote sockets, would make life turning the TV on and off at the mains a lot easier (as well as everything in my office!)
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