View Full Version : Interest Rates down to 1%? (0.5% cut Jan 8 to 1.5%)
The Bank of England faces cutting borrowing costs to beneath two per cent - or even as low as one per cent - within months as it battles to protect Britain from the financial crisis and the worst recession in decades, economists said.
Such a drastic move would bring rates, currently 4.5 per cent, to their lowest level since the Bank was founded in 1694.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/interestrates/3211785/Financial-crisis-Interest-rates-to-hit-lowest-level-since-1694.html
Now this wont do anything for me as my will only track to 2.75% but can anyone else see it getting this low?
Yes i think it will go down maybe as low as 3% but 1%?
splobber
17-10-2008, 21:03
Sounds good in theory, but will just create another tidal wave of debt that everyone can surf on until it comes crashing down again.
Let's start building things again and take away the reliance on other countries for providing us with stuff like rubber dog poo as well as getting rid of the government wastage, spongers and layabouts and we might start becoming solvent again without having to worry about what is happening elsewhere in the world.
I think the banks are terrified of having thousands of repossessions per month so 1% interest on a mortgage being repaid is better than having to sell a house in negative equity at a loss.
I very much doubt it will happen. Even if it did the chances of LIBOR dropping anywhere close is slim anyway.
I would like it though, I have a BofE tracker that after December will be at 0.75% above the BofE rate so a 1.75% mortgage would be excellent!
farmroad38
17-10-2008, 21:18
In theory, this cannot happen for the reasons stated. The Bank of England's sole remit with respect to interest rates is to keep inflation within their target range. Changing the rates for any other reason just indicates that their so-called 'independence' is a sham.
Chris308
17-10-2008, 23:04
The Bank of England's remit also includes supporting the Government's economic objectives, subject to it's objective to control inflation. The Government has also retained the power to instruct the Bank of England on interest rates for a limited period in extreme circumstances
Grandmaster
18-10-2008, 07:22
The value of the pound would plummet and the cost of imports would sky-rocket. We would be on a one-way ticket to a 50s-style austerity era, bearing in mind how much in terms of basic foodstuffs we import.
It's at times like this that the Euro actually starts looking like a good idea...
DVDWotcha
18-10-2008, 09:57
Question is what is going to happen about inflation ? Oil prices have dropped significantly which should in theory ease inflation. However a large slice is down to gas and I very much doubt we will see the significant drop in gas prices.
nutter45
19-10-2008, 06:43
We're going deflationary soon, apparently.
Seems the BofE group voted unanimously for the rate cut to 4.5% this month! That bodes well for further cuts in the coming months I would say along with the official statements that we are definately heading for recession.
Bapapapa
22-10-2008, 09:03
If the interest rate hits 1% the bank will be paying me.. :nuts:
Do you have a negative tracker?
Bapapapa
22-10-2008, 09:19
Nah just a basic discounted rate for life repayment mortgage..
Of course the SVR would never hit 1%, but if it did would the bank actually pay me I wonder..? :nuts:
Ah, would have been impressed with a tracker that was below the BofE rate for any length of time! You are right SVR will never get below around 4% at a guess.
AdamBrunt
22-10-2008, 09:49
Ah, would have been impressed with a tracker that was below the BofE rate for any length of time! You are right SVR will never get below around 4% at a guess.
Depends on what you call "any length of time" but I've still got over 12 months on a BofE - 0.06% tracker ;)
I mean 5+ years usually or lifetime. Mine is +.25% for 6 months then +.75% for life over BofE.
bob12345as
22-10-2008, 11:48
I understand interest rate in the states is 1.5% and with the UK at 4.5% gone are the heady eighties of 18% how the hell anyone kept their home was amazing
Depends on what you call "any length of time" but I've still got over 12 months on a BofE - 0.06% tracker ;)
I've got a BoE + 0.17 for Lifetime ... took it out this time last year ... although we'll get a fixed as soon as I feel the rates will increase.
AdamBrunt
28-10-2008, 14:48
With all this talk of 1% and even 0% rates ... what I don't get is, how is that going to help long term ?
Rates drop to 0%, everybody starts borrowing again cos they can afford 0% interest. But eventually, rates will go back up again - leaving everyone who could only borrow at 0% in the crapper :?:
That is the thing that the banks will be making sure they avoid (hopefully) by making sure that there is equity in houses to make up for it and any possible drop in value of property. Also mortgages will not be 0%, they will never really drop below around 3% for most people at a guess (although those with BofE trackers may see lower, there will be no new ones around).
What is required for mortgages are bonds that will allow 25-30 year fix rates like the prime US mortgages. That way people know what they will pay for the life of the mortgage and hopefully manage their money better.
Dave h-j
28-10-2008, 16:54
With all this talk of 1% and even 0% rates ... what I don't get is, how is that going to help long term ?
Rates drop to 0%, everybody starts borrowing again cos they can afford 0% interest. But eventually, rates will go back up again - leaving everyone who could only borrow at 0% in the crapper :?:
Certainly not much incentive to save :) Anyway, just because the BoE sets a rate, doesn't mean that a) Banks will let you borrow any money and b) they'll let you borrow at that rate...
Just look at it now, rates are 4.5%, but I don't see many 4.5 (or even 5.5%) mortgages around..
Personally I like low interest rates as it means I can pay my house off quicker (tracker + .55%) - i'm not interested in borrowing any more cash..
Dave h-j
28-10-2008, 16:57
What is required for mortgages are bonds that will allow 25-30 year fix rates like the prime US mortgages. That way people know what they will pay for the life of the mortgage and hopefully manage their money better.
Thats what I would like to do - if there was a 25 year at 4.5% fixed rate then I would go for that..
RobDickinson
28-10-2008, 19:39
With all this talk of 1% and even 0% rates ... what I don't get is, how is that going to help long term ?
Rates drop to 0%, everybody starts borrowing again cos they can afford 0% interest. But eventually, rates will go back up again - leaving everyone who could only borrow at 0% in the crapper :?:
Checkout Japan...
AdamBrunt
28-10-2008, 20:29
Personally I like low interest rates as it means I can pay my house off quicker (tracker + .55%) - i'm not interested in borrowing any more cash..
Same here - the BoE can keep cutting the interest rate every month at the moment :)
Thats what I would like to do - if there was a 25 year at 4.5% fixed rate then I would go for that..
So would I - though not at that rate probably.
Damn, I signed up for a five year fix with Yorkshire BS last month to start in Decmeber at 5.59%. Thought it was an excellent rate but now I'm not so sure. Would mean writing the £195 fee paid so far off.
Wondering if a tracker would be better over 2 years or so. Means an extra £500 in fees and the best tracker Ive seen is still +1% of BoE.
The girl in our office who bought her first home in May is on a 5 year fix at 6.75%!!!! So its not that bad is it.
I'm really undecided now.
Fix if you want guarantees, track if you want to risk it. Simple as that really
I fixed my mortgage for 10 years at 6%... mainly because it stretched us to the limit to get the house we wanted. Whilst its a little bit annoying to know that at the moment its costing me some cash (although probably not that much) but at least I know that with inflation the relative cost is going down each year and we know we can afford it. Plus if we ever did see the heady heights of 7 or 8% then I'm happy i can still afford my mortgage.
I got a 2 year tracker from A&L in January at + 0.16 above base (I think I was very lucky!!), so that's working out quite nicely at the moment. It'll be interesting come Jan 2010 to see what Banks are offering, hopefully things will have calmed down a little then!
Fix if you want guarantees, track if you want to risk it. Simple as that really
It certainly isn't as simple as that though is it. I still remember your long thread when you were trying to find a mortgage, it's simple when your looking in but not so easy when it's your mortgage.
daveb_dvd
29-10-2008, 14:51
Tim Besley (MPC Member) gave a speech yesterday which contains some interesting charts - Some Current Issues in UK Monetary Policy. (http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/speeches/2008/speech364.pdf)
Of particular interest was Chart 12, Page 16 showing the average mortgage rates over the last ten years for each type of mortgage (Discount, Fixed, Tracker, SVR) assuming a 75% LTV.
I was very surprised to see that a discount mortgage looks like it would have been the cheapest over that period for most of the time (or all of the time compared to tracker/SVR, and you could only beat it with a fixed rate if you fixed at the right time).
Given the changes in funding sources for banks and building societies over the last year, it will be interesting to see which of these mortgage types is best over the next few years as the graph seems to show them all converging to more or less the same rate over the last few months, SVR excluded.
Bapapapa
29-10-2008, 15:16
The House Price Inflation in '88 according to that report was insane!! :nuts:
Of course the crash a year later was even worse, but still...
It certainly isn't as simple as that though is it. I still remember your long thread when you were trying to find a mortgage, it's simple when your looking in but not so easy when it's your mortgage.
Yeah, I'll give you that! :D I was in a situation though where I wanted to massively overpay so that limited my choices eliminating a lot of fixed rate deals.
I am happy with my current tracker though at the moment (more so if the rates go down next week!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7698614.stm
Another article stating that we need large and agressive rate cuts. I would have no complaints if the BofE matched the US Fed with a 1% rate, but I do not see it happening :( Still another 1-1.5% off the current rate would not be too bad either, but it is the LIBOR rate that needs to drop really.
Blanchflower has been voting for cuts for aaaaaaaaaaages. Even when CPI was nicely within the target and the only reason to cut would have been to keep house prices going up.(IMO they did this a number of times when it would have been far better to allow house price inflation to slow.) In that sense he's not really changed his tune for a while and eventually started making sense. If you ignore the threat to the currency anyway.
Yeah, I've looked at the voting history in th past and seen he always votes for cuts so this is nothing new from him. However it does seem to be gaining a lot of backing now so hopefully he will get his way for once!
Butch Coolidge
30-10-2008, 12:46
The last time the US had an interest at 1% it created the biggest speculation bubble in history.
Let see what will happen now. But I have doubts that the house market bubble will recover anytime soon on any place on Earth.
The house market is deflating fast and the central banks cannot do anything about it. The next subprime wave should burst in April 09. The crise is not over. So what next deflation or hyper inflation ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7701319.stm
So the Bank of Japan has cut rates to 0.3% :eek: That is a very low rate! Do not think we will ever get close to that.
So we get the BofE interest rate announcement tomorrow at noon. The smart money seems to be on another 0.5% cut, but some are saying 0.75% or even 1% is possible.
basegreen
05-11-2008, 18:46
So we get the BofE interest rate announcement tomorrow at noon. The smart money seems to be on another 0.5% cut, but some are saying 0.75% or even 1% is possible.
Say hello to the days of £1 = $1.40.
Yeah, that is my worry as I need to get some dollars soon and am off there at Christmas :(
1.5% cut to 3% :eek: :clap:
KennyVader
06-11-2008, 12:02
I think you mean 1.5% cut from 4.5% to 3% :eek:
damn my fixed-rate mortgage deal :mad:
damn all our savings rates :mad:
Didn't think they would go down as much as 1% let alone 1.5% :nuts:
That means as from next month my Mortgage rate is 3.2% :thumbs:
I think you mean 1.5% cut from 4.5% to 3% :eek:
damn my fixed-rate mortgage deal :mad:
damn all our savings rates :mad:
Already fixed that!
My mortgage is a BofE tracker at rate +0.75% for life as of December (when this rate will take effect for me) so this is good news!
Didn't think they would go down as much as 1% let alone 1.5% :nuts:
Just re-post it (and please remove the extra blank lines from your sig before we do ;) )
yup - so - being wise and saving money makes me worse off, and being wise and going fixed rate also does me no good as I could have saved the difference now.
This is a real kick in the teeth for people like me who don't overspend and are careful with money, and encourages silly spending again.
Nice one.
I'm all for them trying to fix the economy but they seem to be doing everything they can to boost spending, do they not realise that these cycles can never be fixed.
campdave
06-11-2008, 12:06
Blimey, didn't see that one coming! We've been using the money we've saved recently on our fixed rates as overpayments, this will help a fair bit!
Dave h-j
06-11-2008, 12:08
Wow, now that is a huge drop!!! Means my mortgage is now 3.55% which chops £131/month of my mortgage and it down by £200 since I took it out in July...
Or, since I'm going to keep paying the same amount (i.e. overpaying) it takes 13 years off my 35 year mortgage... Shame there won't be any fix rates at this level...
KennyVader
06-11-2008, 12:09
yup - so - being wise and saving money makes me worse off, and being wise and going fixed rate also does me no good as I could have saved the difference now.
This is a real kick in the teeth for people like me who don't overspend and are careful with money, and encourages silly spending again.
Nice one.
I agree, I'm really not impressed at all, I bet the banks will only pass on 0.75% or 1% of the cut on their mortgage SVRs anyway (but will cut their savings rates by the full 1.5%!).
I don't think the baboons in power have thought this through, as you say surely it just opens the door to more people getting into debt they can't really afford, unless they plan to whack it back up again right after Christmas.
GoblinUK
06-11-2008, 12:10
I got my mortgage 6 weeks ago...thank god i picked tracker.
At The Gates
06-11-2008, 12:11
yup - so - being wise and saving money makes me worse off, and being wise and going fixed rate also does me no good as I could have saved the difference now.
This is a real kick in the teeth for people like me who don't overspend and are careful with money, and encourages silly spending again.
Nice one.
I'm all for them trying to fix the economy but they seem to be doing everything they can to boost spending, do they not realise that these cycles can never be fixed.
I know, it burns doesn't it. I have significant savings, having you know, been careful with my money, not buying loads of stuff i cant afford, not getting a 100% mortgage etc.
And for what. Now my savings hit the floor and i have to find yet another savings account.
What good is this rate cut anyway for those that dont have a mortgage? The banks will not pass on the complete savings to new mortgages anyway. And what will happen to the pound? 1:1 with the dollar by Christmas haha.
Mine will be dropping by a little again (I would guess around another 60 quid a month off). I put all the extra back into the offset account. This has taken another month off my mortgage based onmy current overpayment/offset amounts taking my 25 year mortgage down to 30 months :clap: (presuming I can keep up these payments which is unlikely)
Dave h-j
06-11-2008, 12:14
This is a real kick in the teeth for people like me who don't overspend and are careful with money, and encourages silly spending again.
I'm all for them trying to fix the economy but they seem to be doing everything they can to boost spending, do they not realise that these cycles can never be fixed.
Low rates don't always means cheap lending. I think it's safe to say that the banks have learned their lessons (at least for this generation) and won't be lending with such ease.
What this might help though is business, where loans are required to make capital purchases to start and maintain businesses. It's pretty hard to "save up" for either manufacturing equipment or other start up fees. To them this could really help..
Spooky_uk
06-11-2008, 12:14
thats good news, just hope Halifax pass it on again with their trackers. they did last month and the mortgage dropped about £30 as of Nov 1st.
Anyone know if any of the lenders have announced their intentions yet to pass it on or not? TIA
farmroad38
06-11-2008, 12:15
Thank god I've got a lot of my savings in fixed rate accounts! Does mean that the Premium Bond equivalent rate will plummet now - definitely going to be worth pulling out the rest of my cash from there.
This just smacks of a knee-jerk reaction though - what's going to happen to the already high inflation rate if people suddenly start spending willy-nilly?
Doubly bad news as well, because the maintenance payments I make for my son are linked to inflation - if it goes up, I pay more whilst my savings earn less.
cjanderson
06-11-2008, 12:20
Mine will be dropping by a little again (I would guess around another 60 quid a month off). I put all the extra back into the offset account. This has taken another month off my mortgage based onmy current overpayment/offset amounts taking my 25 year mortgage down to 30 months :clap: (presuming I can keep up these payments which is unlikely)
we can have a challenge, see who gets there's paid off first :D
i am a happy bunny, mortgage now down to 3.17% and savings still at a nice 6.5% :D
pity they don't pass the rates to everyone though.
Arthur Fowler
06-11-2008, 12:23
damn my fixed-rate mortgage deal :mad:
damn all our savings rates :mad:
Ditto. This would have made a huge difference to our payments if we'd made a different decision 6 months ago. :cry:
we can have a challenge, see who gets there's paid off first :D
i am a happy bunny, mortgage now down to 3.17% and savings still at a nice 6.5% :D
pity they don't pass the rates to everyone though.
I wish I could have got a tracker as low as your's, but my offset is nice enough. My ETA for repayment is at Dec 2010 if circumstances do not change and +/- a couple of months because my spreadsheet does not take into effect daily interest or me losing my job!
with the rate drop does anyone think it would be best to buy dollars today rather than next week when i go over to the US?
Difficult to say, the rate has actually got better since the announcement (up from $1.58 to $1.60) :nuts:
nutter45
06-11-2008, 12:33
My BoE base rate +0.08% is looking good value atm :D
Is that for life at that rate?
Butch Coolidge
06-11-2008, 12:41
I am curious to see what will happen to the exchange rate €/£. The pound being already very low... Those vacations in Spain are going to cost a lot.
On the bright side when 1 quid will be equal to 1 Euro the UK will be ready to be a member of the Eurozone :lol:
before people get too gleeful about these cuts, pause for a minute and think WHY they needed to be cut so badly.
the situation is still very dire indeed.
How will this rate cut affect my ISA savings account at the Nationwide? Will it do anything to that rate?
nutter45
06-11-2008, 12:54
Is that for life at that rate?
I wish :lol:
It's a 2 year deal I got at roughly this time last year, so a fair bit of life left in it yet. I'll probably look to fix if the fixed rates start to get sensible in say 6 months time.
cjanderson
06-11-2008, 12:57
I wish I could have got a tracker as low as your's, but my offset is nice enough. My ETA for repayment is at Dec 2010 if circumstances do not change and +/- a couple of months because my spreadsheet does not take into effect daily interest or me losing my job!
I don't yet have a spreadsheet :dork:
though at current rate of paying and o/s balance it will be 24 months so same as you.
not that i will pay it off, better options for savings than the mortgage now - isa's and shares probably or more in the pension.
This is doing my nut in.
The rates are now lower than when I fixed at 4.69% five years ago which ends next month. Yet I still can't get a better deal than that.
The abbey trackers are now +2.19%, the Woolwich are +1.59% and others will probably follow.
I have a 5.59% five year fix due to complete next month, I have signed the deeds and sent them back, does anyone know if that makes it binding or if I still have until completion to back out?
Still not sure if its worth backing out at this stage as it doesn't look that likely I will be able to take advantage of the cuts anyway. But it still maybe worth it if not to just shorten the term.
My lifetime Base Rate Tracker at +0.17% is doing nicely.
However, check this article out:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/article.html?in_article_id=455964&in_page_id=8&in_a_source=&position=moretopstories
Basically when rates get to a certain level then the Banks and Building Societies have the power not to pass the cuts on to Base Rate Tracker customers. Each bank has a different policy.
I'm with the Woolwich and the Base Rate Tracker I have follows the Barclays Bank Base Rate. In the sales material it says that this means the Bank of England base rate. There's a nice fight brewing if they try not to pass the cuts on to me. I quite fancy taking on the challenge it is comes to it!
KennyVader
06-11-2008, 13:15
Can see loads of people that were in the process of agreeing mortgages the last few weeks now stalling or backing out completely for a couple of weeks/months to see what new rates/products come out. Then they will probably wait until Christmas is out of the way so it will be late Jan and Feb before house sale figures start to show any difference.
So it might get things moving in the long run but can't help thinking that such a big panic move cut in one go could be a disaster for the housing market in the short term, especially with it's proximity to the "holiday season" as they call it in the US.
Also you have got to wonder what our friends in the treasury are expecting for them to have made such a drastic and surprise move rather than cut it gently over a few months or at least in two monthly installments.
As others have said even if you are one of the lucky ones with a really low tracker mortgage rate and high fixed savings rate I'm still not sure I'd be breaking open the champagne just yet.
simonmac
06-11-2008, 13:17
Would now be a good time to try and remortgage? Still looking at Barclays BOE + 1.79% for life no fees
LooneyJetman
06-11-2008, 13:30
Well, stupidly we re-fixed back in July this year, so the rate cut won't affect our mortgage.
The secured loan we have with Barclays has always bucked the trend with interest rates anyway, so I expect that will go up...
So I'll probably end up worse off with the rate cut!
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 13:39
Would now be a good time to try and remortgage? Still looking at Barclays BOE + 1.79% for life no fees
But then there's no guarantee that, eventually, rates won't go back up again when this 'recession' is over.
IMO the ideal situation would be a find a long term fix at a (pretty low) rate you're comfortable with.
still average joe
06-11-2008, 13:39
We have intentionally held off aggreeing a new deal on one of our flats for the very reason that the rates were going to drop, but 1.5%, wow.
Looks like we will actually be making a monthly profit on that property (which we can put to overpaying the mortgage on our home) for a change and we may start to see consolidation of house prices soon too.
I don't yet have a spreadsheet :dork:
though at current rate of paying and o/s balance it will be 24 months so same as you.
not that i will pay it off, better options for savings than the mortgage now - isa's and shares probably or more in the pension.
I am not including my ISA or savings in my calculation, this is just mortgage offset account! I still have a few grand in instant access savings and a decent amount in my ISA. If I was to use them I could pay my mortgage off at the end next year I think
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 13:47
My mortgage payment went down about £45pm last rate change ... so I should be looking at about a £120pm+ reduction now, right ? Or am I missing something obvious ?
ChrisHunt
06-11-2008, 13:48
Hopefully HSBC will pass on the rate to their variable rate this time (on a discount rate of HSBC variable rate less 0.96%)
For once I seem to be ahead of the game - have put all my savings into fixed term deals over the last couple of months, and assuming this pushes the pound further down (any predictions on that?) it'll increase the value of my USD income. So hopefully a win-win situation, in the sense that I win, twice.
simonmac
06-11-2008, 13:51
But then there's no guarantee that, eventually, rates won't go back up again when this 'recession' is over.
IMO the ideal situation would be a find a long term fix at a (pretty low) rate you're comfortable with.
At the moment I am trying to sell my house, so hoping to sell it within 12 months so the no setup or redemption fees are a seller
My mortgage payment went down about £45pm last rate change ... so I should be looking at about a £120pm+ reduction now, right ? Or am I missing something obvious ?
Presuming BofE tracker then yes give or take should be around 120 quid off
the_edge30
06-11-2008, 13:52
Hopefully HSBC will pass on the rate to their variable rate this time (on a discount rate of HSBC variable rate less 0.96%)
Cant see it matey, HSBC have refused to take part in this Government scheme (although they did agree it was a good idea) and so will not feel obligated to do so, they are very cash rich and so do not need government hand outs at all.
Bit of a shame, I will now loose my mortgage subsidy because of this drop (I work for HSBC) although if things stay as they are I may be able to get a nice deal on my mortgage when my 3 years is up next July.
At The Gates
06-11-2008, 14:00
I wouldn't expect HSBC to pass on any cuts. If they do then count yourself lucky. The last interest rate drop they cut their savings rates literally the next morning by the full 0.5%, and put up their tracker rates to compensate for the 0.5% drop. How do they win Mortage of the Year awards? baffling. What are they going to do now, reduce their savings accounts by 1.5%? What's the point even having a savings account with them, might as well just leave it in a current account...
Suffice to say, every penny i have with HSBC bar the few hundred quid i need in my current account to get by on each week, will be out of their hands before the weeks end.
some banks will and some won't it's as simple as that, we are remortgaging very soon so now is a good time to get a drop locked tracker!!!! Then we can fix it nice and low.
Greemie666
06-11-2008, 14:12
What difference does this new rate make to those of us have payed off our mortgages?
Means your savings interest will go down!
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 14:15
Presuming BofE tracker
Oh, yes
yes give or take should be around 120 quid off
Thought so.
Now any sensible person would start overpaying their mortgage by £120. Me on the other hand .... spend spend spend ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/property/mortgagecalculator.shtml
That will give you a more accurate number I think.
I would really overpay if you can on your mortgage deal, it makes a massive difference over the years
Spooky_uk
06-11-2008, 14:59
wish we could :( maybe in a couple of years we will hopefully be able to do so..
Art Vanderlay
06-11-2008, 15:06
I would really overpay if you can on your mortgage deal, it makes a massive difference over the years
While I had the mortgage calculator up I worked out I could pay my mortgage off in 5 years (rather than 17) if I pay £2k per month off it, rather than the £750 or so we pay atm.
I would make us a bit hard up for those 5 years, but it would be very very nice to clear the mortgage so soon.
Going to do the sums at the weekend to see if I can get that £2k down a bit, once I factor in the higher interest I can get by putting the overpayment portion into an ISA rather than paying it straight off the mortgage.
Probably won't go to that extreme, but will seriously consider trying to get it down to 10 years.
the_edge30
06-11-2008, 15:29
Cant see it matey, HSBC have refused to take part in this Government scheme (although they did agree it was a good idea) and so will not feel obligated to do so, they are very cash rich and so do not need government hand outs at all.
Bit of a shame, I will now loose my mortgage subsidy because of this drop (I work for HSBC) although if things stay as they are I may be able to get a nice deal on my mortgage when my 3 years is up next July.
Ill take it back, it would appear they are reducing them.
The forecasts for the economy have clearly spooked the Bank. They have fiddled with a quarter here and a half there and finally gone for a big one. Hopefully David Blanchflower at the Bank of England and the increasingly sweaty and exasperated Will Hutton (Whose wife has invested heavily in property...) will now shut up about the need for big interest rate cuts.
What if it doesn't work?
The Bank is meant to be looking a year or so ahead with it's decisions. Yet I have a sneaking suspicion this is more short term. Inflation is falling now. Oil has dropped substantially. It is also a handy side-effect that it should give people stuck on standard variable rates a bit of breathing space in the run up to Christmas.(Given that the banks have been warned (http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/nov/06/economy-interest-rates) they must pass on the cut or Parliament will intervene.)
I'm with Egg who stopped doing mortgages in June 08. They didn't pass on the 0.5% cut the last time. Any chance they will pass this one on?
While I had the mortgage calculator up I worked out I could pay my mortgage off in 5 years (rather than 17) if I pay £2k per month off it, rather than the £750 or so we pay atm.
I would make us a bit hard up for those 5 years, but it would be very very nice to clear the mortgage so soon.
Going to do the sums at the weekend to see if I can get that £2k down a bit, once I factor in the higher interest I can get by putting the overpayment portion into an ISA rather than paying it straight off the mortgage.
Probably won't go to that extreme, but will seriously consider trying to get it down to 10 years.
Well I fill my ISA first and keep some in instant access savings but everything else goes into my offset account for my mortgage (at least I can easily get it back if needed). The plan being once I have enough in my offset to pay off the mortgage I will do and then start piling loads into retirement savings as I have no pension at the moment and do not want to start one with the markets so heavily depressed.
and do not want to start one with the markets so heavily depressed.
Surely the best time to start one? In fact your quite lucky to have the opportunity to invest in such a depression. When its back up at 6000 wheres the profit coming from then?
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 16:23
While I had the mortgage calculator up I worked out I could pay my mortgage off in 5 years (rather than 17) if I pay £2k per month off it, rather than the £750 or so we pay atm.
I would make us a bit hard up for those 5 years, but it would be very very nice to clear the mortgage so soon.
Going to do the sums at the weekend to see if I can get that £2k down a bit, once I factor in the higher interest I can get by putting the overpayment portion into an ISA rather than paying it straight off the mortgage.
Probably won't go to that extreme, but will seriously consider trying to get it down to 10 years.
You'll also need to check whether you're allowed to overpay £15k a year on your mortgage. They usually state in the conditions that you can not overpay by more than x% of the outstanding amount.
As for me ... apparently, I need to check the t&cs of my mortgage to see if it states a minimum interest rate (which knowing my luck, if it did, would be above 3%)
Surely the best time to start one? In fact your quite lucky to have the opportunity to invest in such a depression. When its back up at 6000 wheres the profit coming from then?
Yes it is, but not until the market somewhat bottoms out. I think some point next summer will be the best time at the earliest.
Yes it is, but not until the market somewhat bottoms out. I think some point next summer will be the best time at the earliest.
You will never find the bottom so why even try. Even if you did find the bottom it is more likely than not once it has bottomed it will rise quite quickly.
Its low now, it may get lowered, but it will certainly get higher before you need to use your pension fund so you will make a profit on buying units today, maybe not as much if you did find the bottom but still a profit. Its not as though you would pay in a lump sum next summer, how risky would that be?
So glad i grabbed a 0.68% ( 3 yrs) 5 weeks ago and held back on a 5.78% fixed for 5 years. I saved about £35 last month so will be better off £105 this month (dec) and £140 in the last 2 months.
Lets hope the bank rate comes down and then i can stick a great fix in
Can anyone give me a bit info. Our mortgage was dropped by half a percent last month (from 7% to 6 and a half) so how much more will it drop?
Bapapapa
06-11-2008, 18:01
Can anyone give me a bit info. Our mortgage was dropped by half a percent last month (from 7% to 6 and a half) so how much more will it drop?
If they pass it all on then it's a pretty simple sum
6.5 - 1.5 =
Say hello to deflation.
Let's not forget the bank make the decision on future forecast information it is privy to. Forget recession, is it a depression that the we are heading into?
Ragnarak
06-11-2008, 18:17
Virtually everywhere are pulling their tracker mortgage products and "with immediate effect" in some places :-(
Let's not forget the bank make the decision on future forecast information it is privy to.Specifically the BoE's own inflation report which is published next week.
If they pass it all on then it's a pretty simple sum
6.5 - 1.5 =
Ok. I thought that the .5 drop already made part of this 1.5 they are talking about, so it will have dropped 2% overall, great!
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 18:47
Checked my mortgage t&cs (and phoned them to confirm). There is a minimum IR on the mortgage of 3% [ which includes any discount - which I have ]. I joking said to the woman on the phone "All we need now is for you to launch a 3.5% Fixed 20 yr product and I'll be laughing" - she wasn't amused.
Still 3% is not to be sneezed at :)
Presuming BofE tracker then yes give or take should be around 120 quid off
For those on a tracker I would check your T&Cs as Adam has done:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/mortgages/article.html?in_article_id=455964&in_page_id=8&in_a_source=&position=moretopstories
For some 3% is as low as it will go. For others it can keep going down.
Will have to check, but am not aware of a minimum. The base rate will have to drop below 2.25% for me to hit a 3% floor, but will check anyway.
AdamBrunt
06-11-2008, 23:04
TBH it didn't take me long to find it in the original offer documents - the documents didn't try to hide it at all. They went on about how the lender has the right to adjust the discount margin, at their discretion, either to my advantage or my disadvantage but in such a way that I would never pay less than 3%.. The mortgage was arranged over the phone and I don't remember a minimum being mentioned at the time. But then, at the time, I wasn't expecting the BoE rate to get as low as 3% :)
I am still trying to work out what situations would lead them to change the discount rate to my advantage ;)
I am still trying to work out what situations would lead them to change the discount rate to my advantage ;)
I would presume that will be when the overall rate goes back above 3% so that you are back to your original offer rate?
cjanderson
07-11-2008, 09:54
I'm with the Woolwich and the Base Rate Tracker I have follows the Barclays Bank Base Rate. In the sales material it says that this means the Bank of England base rate. There's a nice fight brewing if they try not to pass the cuts on to me. I quite fancy taking on the challenge it is comes to it!
they never have NOT tracked the BOE rate, usually they update their webpage the next day to show the new rate.
http://www.woolwich.co.uk/mortgages/tracker-mortgages.html
i can't remember if there is a floor or not on this one, though there isn't any worry about it this time, as i'd be on 3.17% this month, its just for future months.
have to do some sums, is it even worth chucking money at this mortgage when savings rate are staying high. i only need to get 5.28% (taxed) to beat my mortgage rate now.
So: good savings accounts- whats worth opening??????
neilalford
07-11-2008, 10:21
I'm on a fixed rate of 5.75 until spring :( Though hopefully by the time that comes to an end the mortgage market will have settled down a bit and the effects of these cuts will have filtered through, so there may be some good deals.
Though at least my savings are fixed till around the same time (6.5% ISA, 7% Internet Saver).
Also heard a few murmurings that the size of this cut means there might still be a few smaller cuts to come in the next few months :eek:
Well I just checked my mortgage T&C's and no obvious floor in the rate but they do state they can choose to change the offer rate at 3 months notice but if they do there is no early redemption charge. Hopefully it will not come to that though!
First Direct have withdrawn several of their mortgage products and have brought in an SVR of 5.5%, whereas before yesterday they stuck to 1% above base rates.
AdamBrunt
07-11-2008, 11:23
I would presume that will be when the overall rate goes back above 3% so that you are back to your original offer rate?
I hope so.
KennyVader
07-11-2008, 11:36
Hmm Halifax have only dropped their Fixed Rate Web Saver from 7.00% (yesterday) to 6.75% (today) (3 month term). That's a good sign, savings rates haven't necessarily fallen through the floor.
The plan being once I have enough in my offset to pay off the mortgage I will do....
I'm interested to know your thinking behind this Kryten.
We have enough money in the offset account to pay off the mortgage. However, at the moment, I don't see the benefit in doing this.
Isn't it better to keep the money in an accessible pot or am I missing something?
mr starface
07-11-2008, 12:14
Hoping Nationwide will announce its cuts soon. Looks like we made the right choice getting a Tracker back in August, makes a change normally we get it wrong!
Will hopefully take some advice from here and overpay as the money will only sit in our current account anyway and get eaten up by something else.
Dick Long
07-11-2008, 12:18
Hmm Halifax have only dropped their Fixed Rate Web Saver from 7.00% (yesterday) to 6.75% (today) (3 month term). That's a good sign, savings rates haven't necessarily fallen through the floor.
A 3 month fix is nothing really and useful to Halifax et al to attract in some savings cash that might go elsewhere.
It's the longer term fixed rates that have disappeared - 3 days ago you could fix at over 6% for 2 years (I know cos I was down at the BS branch doing it), a couple of weeks ago you could get 6.5% for 3 years easily enough :cry:
I'm interested to know your thinking behind this Kryten.
We have enough money in the offset account to pay off the mortgage. However, at the moment, I don't see the benefit in doing this.
Isn't it better to keep the money in an accessible pot or am I missing something?
There is no specific reason other than wanting to be officially mortgage free! I agree it is nice to have that buffer if needed to get at the money, but I would still make sure I have plenty of actual savings too before clearing off the mortgage.
they never have NOT tracked the BOE rate, usually they update their webpage the next day to show the new rate.
http://www.woolwich.co.uk/mortgages/tracker-mortgages.html
i can't remember if there is a floor or not on this one, though there isn't any worry about it this time, as i'd be on 3.17% this month, its just for future months.
have to do some sums, is it even worth chucking money at this mortgage when savings rate are staying high. i only need to get 5.28% (taxed) to beat my mortgage rate now.
So: good savings accounts- whats worth opening??????
I checked my mortgage offer and sales material last night. It does say the Barclays Bank Base Rate but in the mortgage offer it states that references to this should be taken to mean the Bank of England Base Rate. This is what I signed up to.
I know Barclays have the right not to change their base rate but would say I have a good case if they try this for potential future rate changes based on the wording in my mortgage offer. It's not very TCF if they to try get out of it and I would like to see what their response would be.
Dick Long
07-11-2008, 16:45
More on tracker interest rate 'collars' here. (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1083912/How-small-print-allows-banks-avoid-passing-future-rate-cuts-countrys-homeowners.html)
Spooky_uk
07-11-2008, 16:47
Hbos finally announced passing full 1.5% on (phew!) also NW as well..
steve_smith
07-11-2008, 17:09
We are in the process of remortgaging to Nationwide, and only a few weeks ago agreed to a fixed rate of 6.08% for 2 years.
However, its not actually gone through yet (they seem to be dragging their heals, only a few days ago, my usual mortgage payment came out, and still to our old lender).
What would be opinion on (a) whether we're likely to be able to change our mind at this late stage and tell Nationwide we want to go on their standard variable rate instead, and (b) if we can do that, whether its actually a wise thing to do (in so far as, are these low rates likely to last for more than a few months?).
I'd hate to pay a bank more money that I absolutely had to.
Opinions welcomed!
Well I just checked my mortgage T&C's and no obvious floor in the rate but they do state they can choose to change the offer rate at 3 months notice but if they do there is no early redemption charge. Hopefully it will not come to that though!
Ta! Saves me looking :thumbs:
We are in the process of remortgaging to Nationwide, and only a few weeks ago agreed to a fixed rate of 6.08% for 2 years.
However, its not actually gone through yet (they seem to be dragging their heals, only a few days ago, my usual mortgage payment came out, and still to our old lender).
What would be opinion on (a) whether we're likely to be able to change our mind at this late stage and tell Nationwide we want to go on their standard variable rate instead, and (b) if we can do that, whether its actually a wise thing to do (in so far as, are these low rates likely to last for more than a few months?).
I'd hate to pay a bank more money that I absolutely had to.
Opinions welcomed!
Is all the paperwork signed? If it is you might be able to change but you might loose the fee you paid.
Best best to ring them asap as they might say it's already gone on as 6% now is a huge bonus for them.
wakey99999
08-11-2008, 10:29
Woolwich base rate is 3% as of yesterday. So looks like on 3.74% for me now (lifetime tracker 0.74 above base rate) :)
Anybody else with woolwich know I how I carry on over paying?
Cheers
Steve
cjanderson
08-11-2008, 11:04
wooo, i just checked as well.
Mine is slightly different, as its Interest only - so they take the interest by DD (which will be revised), and then i just set up a regular payment for the overpayment - which i can adjust any time i want. So you just need the account number to set it up - ring and ask them :)
wakey99999
08-11-2008, 11:11
wooo, i just checked as well.
Mine is slightly different, as its Interest only - so they take the interest by DD (which will be revised), and then i just set up a regular payment for the overpayment - which i can adjust any time i want. So you just need the account number to set it up - ring and ask them :)
Mine is part re-payment and the rest interest only so quite similar. But I will do as you say and ring them.
Cheers
Dave h-j
08-11-2008, 12:10
Anybody else with woolwich know I how I carry on over paying?
I have woolwich mortgage too (well, actually 2) and I don't think they reduce your payments until September when they re-adjust the accounts.
steve_smith
08-11-2008, 12:20
Is all the paperwork signed? If it is you might be able to change but you might loose the fee you paid.
Best best to ring them asap as they might say it's already gone on as 6% now is a huge bonus for them.
It was a no fee fixed rate. We did sign something in the branch, but the only correspondence we had since was an offer letter which said something about not being bound by the terms until the funds are released.
Waiting for the branch to call me. Fingers crossed!
cjanderson
08-11-2008, 12:25
I have woolwich mortgage too (well, actually 2) and I don't think they reduce your payments until September when they re-adjust the accounts.
they will alter payments from December onwards. And of course the small overpayment in November will be in your favour.
I must remember to bump up the overpayment by the amount of the interest reduction.
AdamBrunt
09-11-2008, 15:56
Is there an online tool somewhere which shows the affects of overpaying by £x pm ?
Bapapapa
09-11-2008, 18:34
http://www.whatmortgage.co.uk/calculators/fleximortgage.html
Dave h-j
09-11-2008, 19:51
they will alter payments from December onwards. And of course the small overpayment in November will be in your favour.
I must remember to bump up the overpayment by the amount of the interest reduction.
Cheers - i'll keep an eye out for the letter then as need to make sure I do the same too..
Looked on their website and C and G are passing this onto customers also!
simonmac
11-11-2008, 16:22
Hbos finally announced passing full 1.5% on (phew!)
I'm with IF and its still showing the old rate :(
Spooky_uk
15-11-2008, 15:35
I'm with IF and its still showing the old rate :(
still not had the letter yet though :(
Well after the talks in Washington this weekend there were even more rumours about another possible interest rate cut! Also talks about tax cuts, but no mention of the one i wanted which was the re-introduction of mortgage tax relief (of course that would not happen as a lot of Gordo's supporters do not have a mortgage to worry about ;) )
Bapapapa
16-11-2008, 09:34
Think I heard on the radio last week that the banks would not be passing on any more BoE interest rate cuts.. :suspect:
I'm with IF and its still showing the old rate :(
although I note their cash ISA has plummeted though!
AdamBrunt
17-11-2008, 11:24
Hurrah.
Despite being told, over the phone, that the rate on my "BofE - 0.06%" tracker will only go down to 3% ... I received a letter this morning confirming that, as of Dec 1st, my new rate will be 2.94% :)
The letter also says what the new monthly payment will be but I haven't checked whether that means it really will be 2.94% or is 3%.
Spooky_uk
17-11-2008, 14:47
Think I heard on the radio last week that the banks would not be passing on any more BoE interest rate cuts.. :suspect:
el gordo would be quick to jump on them if they didn't..
AdamBrunt
19-11-2008, 13:23
According to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7737089.stm) they were a considering a drop to 2.5% rather than 3% - but decided it would be too big a shock !!!
A further saving of £40pm would have been a shock I am sure I could cope with ;)
Hurrah.
Despite being told, over the phone, that the rate on my "BofE - 0.06%" tracker will only go down to 3% ... I received a letter this morning confirming that, as of Dec 1st, my new rate will be 2.94% :)
The letter also says what the new monthly payment will be but I haven't checked whether that means it really will be 2.94% or is 3%.
Is that a lifetime tracker? Very good deal if so :thumbs:
AdamBrunt
19-11-2008, 15:47
Is that a lifetime tracker? Very good deal if so :thumbs:
Sadly not ... only for the next 12 months.
ChrisHunt
21-11-2008, 13:43
HSBC have finally made their announcement on their SVR rate cut but only a drop of 0.81%, not the full 1.5% - Greedy ************
At The Gates
21-11-2008, 16:59
But they still decided to cut their savings rate by the FULL amount. Absolute bunch of.....
drush9999
21-11-2008, 19:11
HSBC have finally made their announcement on their SVR rate cut but only a drop of 0.81%, not the full 1.5% - Greedy ************
Despite Northern Rock announcing 1.5% cut last month on the SVR, we're getting 0.15% instead :mad:
Can anyone else confirm what they are getting from NR?
pyrogena
21-11-2008, 21:10
But they still decided to cut their savings rate by the FULL amount. Absolute bunch of.....
First Direct (blood sucking spawn of HSBC) cut their savings rate straight away. Internet only access e-saver down to 2.9% - woo and a hoo. So glad I moved banks away from them last month.
drush9999
21-11-2008, 22:01
Despite my last post, it seems some NR customers get the 1.5% cut in December, and the rest in January.
So why they bothered sending out letters with the wrong interest rate I don't know... :doh:
Well I just checked my mortgage T&C's and no obvious floor in the rate but they do state they can choose to change the offer rate at 3 months notice but if they do there is no early redemption charge. Hopefully it will not come to that though!
West Brom have offered some "special deals" inc 1 year fix at 1.99% with a fee and 1 year fix at 2.99% no fee; you then go onto a tracker+0.99%
BUT the new tracker would have a floor of 2.75% so you could never pay less than 3.74%
Funnily enough I will stick to my BOEBR+0.75% with no floor...yet:suspect:
Yeah, I got the same! I am also sticking to the current deal. I think they are hoping that sime gullible people move to these new accounts thinking they are better. Also the new ones are not offset from what I saw when I quickly checked it.
3.25% for me this month, up to 3.75% from next month (unless the BofE rate goes down again)
should be up from January shouldn't it Kryten - 6months?
Yeah, the Jan payment will go up :( Still maybe the interest rate will go down a little more to compensate ;)
I'm going for either a 0.5% drop or 1% tomorrow.
I'd be happy with a 3.5% drop therefore I get paid to borrow money.
Realistically, 1% or so.
They are saying on the BBC World news this morning that they are expecting a 1% cut today and more next year! This 1% is looking possible.
Dropping my mortgage to 2.75% would be very nice, but if the mortgage provider would honour this or use a getout clause remains to be seen.
so is brown going to help savers and people who rely on savings interest (perhaps by not taxing interest when interest rates are way below inflation) like he is helping mortgage payers? is he **** :|
They are saying on the BBC World news this morning that they are expecting a 1% cut today and more next year! This 1% is looking possible.
Dropping my mortgage to 2.75% would be very nice, but if the mortgage provider would honour this or use a getout clause remains to be seen.
We'll find out today. If they pass any cut on to us it takes us below the floor they want for the new rates doesn't it?
They are saying on the BBC World news this morning that they are expecting a 1% cut today and more next year! This 1% is looking possible.
Dropping my mortgage to 2.75% would be very nice, but if the mortgage provider would honour this or use a getout clause remains to be seen.
They saw you coming and you've been stung.
I'm on BoE base minus 0.4% (with no minimum rate). :thumbs:
farmroad38
04-12-2008, 11:21
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7763546.stm
Willem Buiter, a former member of the Bank's policy-making committee, now at the London School of Economics, has said that rates will need to fall to zero by next year, because the recession will be "deep" and "prolonged".
How is that going to help? If rates fall to zero, no bank is going to lend any money as it means they will be taking a risk without any hope of financial return. Presumably the thinking is that if it's not possible to make interest on savings that everyone will just spend all of their money, but if the recession were that bad I know damn well I'd be keeping hold of as much of my cash as I possibly could!
At The Gates
04-12-2008, 12:00
Exactly. Am i missing something here? How is dropping interest rates going to stimulate the economy or stimulate the housing situation?
You can't get mortgages now unless you have a 40% deposit or want to pay a huge fee. Even for someone who earns an ok salary like me and has zero debts. Ridiculous. I could afford the mortgage i would need for a place that i want with probably £300 a week left over after all outgoings, yet i can't get it because the LTVs are going up and up and up. Physically impossible to save quick enough. And contrary to what most people seem to think, houses in inner London are not dropping anywhere near the rates being claimed.
And even with interest rates going down people still won't spend (enough to satisfy Brown anyway) as they're too scared of losing their jobs and are just paying more off on their mortgages.
And anyone with significant savings is completely and utterly shafted as pretty much every lender seems to drop their savings rates by the full amount each time. What the government should be doing is something to stop banks obliterating savings accounts rates, and forcing to people to actually live within their means for one goddamn time in their life, and heaven forbid, saving their own money to help themselves in bad times and not everyone else's taxes.
cjanderson
04-12-2008, 12:03
hurrah!!!!!!!! down another 1% :D
Sammy709Sony930
04-12-2008, 12:06
I have some money in a Cash ISA that will now be getting 2% interest.
Time to convert to a Stocks & Shares ISA?
RBS shares are looking tempting.
hurrah!!!!!!!! down another 1% :D
I thought you had savings/little borrowings? :thinking:
good news though - let's hope the cut gets passed on soon - I'm due to remortgage in couple of months
I have some money in a Cash ISA that will now be getting 2% interest.
Time to convert to a Stocks & Shares ISA?
RBS shares are looking tempting.
I've got a fixed rate 6.45% ISA which is looking pretty good atm. It was in Stocks & Shares ISA until last July when it had lost about £2 -3,000 so I sold the stock and put it into Cash ISA and bonds.
Arthur Fowler
04-12-2008, 12:17
:( Another reason for to be ****** off that I chose a fixed rate back in June. Hey ho, that's how the dice land I guess.
Made the decision based on being able to afford the repayments at the rate back then, but would struggle if they rose significantly. Fixed for 5 years, so may prove to be the right decision in the long term, but at the moment, I'm very much regretting it :(
cjanderson
04-12-2008, 12:27
I thought you had savings/little borrowings? :thinking:
good news though - let's hope the cut gets passed on soon - I'm due to remortgage in couple of months
Mortgage is at tracker rates (so now 2.18%) and savings mostly at fixed rates. So i am lucky at presemt, though it could have gone the other way and i'd be paying far more on my mortgage. who knew rates would go this mad.
charlie angel
04-12-2008, 12:29
:( Another reason for to be ****** off that I chose a fixed rate back in June. Hey ho, that's how the dice land I guess.
Same situation here; feeling like I've been mugged :lol:
Got to laugh about it though - I took the best deal that was available to me at the time, due to having not much equity in my house, so there's little I can do about it :)
:( Another reason for to be ****** off that I chose a fixed rate back in June. Hey ho, that's how the dice land I guess.
You're right - that's the gamble.
We had a similar decision last March - go for a tracker or a fixed rate. Being a gambler at heart I went for the tracker - the rates would have needed to have ticked up twice before it became more expensive than the fix on offer.
Sod's law dictated that our house purchase dragged out and by the time we moved in August, rates had ticked up twice and we were paying a higher rate than if we'd taken the fixed rate. My 'gamble' looked a poor one.
Now, of course, it looks like a right result with our rate falling to 1.6% today.
Spooky_uk
04-12-2008, 12:51
hurrah!!!!!!!! down another 1% :D
yes and halifax who we haev out tracker with haver already announced the cut wil be passed on in full :thumbs:
pyrogena
04-12-2008, 12:58
I'm happy for those responsible people with mortgages who can get some extra breathing room (really, I am...not for those that stretched themselves beyond what they could afford) - however these cuts in interest rates are starting to really **** me off.
As someone with no mortgage but with savings each time the interest rate gets cut, I take a cut. I don't have mega millions but I'm trying to save up my money and I'm now very grumpy. :mad:
Glad I got a fixed rate (12 months) Egg Savings account at 6.3% back in October now! My stoozepot would otherwise be taking a big hit! :D
me too. savers are subsidising borrowing now out of their own pocket as inflation is higher than interest. Seriously wondering if just withdrawing it would be safer, already been through the iceland fiasco with no access to my money for a few months. is it worth that risk again to earn up to 2% interest?!
farmroad38
04-12-2008, 13:12
Luckily I have the majority of my savings in fixed interest accounts, but it does mean that anyone with savings that they didn't invest a while ago is now seeing them eroded with rates so far below inflation.
I've just cashed in the last of my premium bonds too - if NS&I pass on the cut, the bond rate will be down to 0.8%!
Our mortgage with Nationwide is collered at 2.97% but I'll need to check my key facts leaflet as they may have not explained that like the Halifax. Though we are pretty happy as our tracker is 0.18% above base rate.
pyrogena
04-12-2008, 13:28
Luckily I have the majority of my savings in fixed interest accounts, but it does mean that anyone with savings that they didn't invest a while ago is now seeing them eroded with rates so far below inflation.
I've just cashed in the last of my premium bonds too - if NS&I pass on the cut, the bond rate will be down to 0.8%!
I was planning on buying a bunch of bonds and kick started with £200 last month (just before the last interest rate cut). Not going to bother buying any more now!
Still...if more people withdraw their bonds then the odds might go up!
/wishful thinking mode on.
farmroad38
04-12-2008, 13:31
I was planning on buying a bunch of bonds and kick started with £200 last month (just before the last interest rate cut). Not going to bother buying any more now!
Still...if more people withdraw their bonds then the odds might go up!
/wishful thinking mode on.
The odds on winning the million pound prizes will improve, but the prize fund will decrease, as it is a percentage of the total amount invested. It will actually mean that your odds of winning a smaller prize will decrease.
DVDWotcha
04-12-2008, 13:36
I'm not expecting this cut to be passed on. I only got 1% of the last cut. Seems the only people who will benefit will be those on trackers. Everyone else on variable rates seem to be stuck around the 5% mark. And of course no more trackers on the markets now, so can't even remortgage. Gordon needs to give the banks an arse whipping if they don't pass it on in full.
With my Cash ISA fiasco with Egg I might just throw my allocation for this year into my offset savings account +/- pay off more of the mortgage with it...
Probably a good idea to deduce debt to absolute minimum in this climate rather than "save" isn't it? [with the caveat that savings for a rainy day are in place, of course] :shrug:
pyrogena
04-12-2008, 13:38
Gordon needs to give the banks an arse whipping if they don't pass it on in full.
He'll probably just give them a couple of million pounds instead.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7763546.stm
How is that going to help? If rates fall to zero, no bank is going to lend any money as it means they will be taking a risk without any hope of financial return. Presumably the thinking is that if it's not possible to make interest on savings that everyone will just spend all of their money, but if the recession were that bad I know damn well I'd be keeping hold of as much of my cash as I possibly could!
Low or zero Bank of England rates don't automatically translate to low or zero loan rates. Banks will still have their margins and with trackers, as the BoE rate has fallen the margins get increased to compensate.
It's less about getting lending going again and more about reducing the cost of existing debts that are tied to the BoE rate to help borrowers and lenders alike. Government allowed the banks to lend far in excess of what was sensible, in part thanks to the popularity of interest only mortgages, in part due to cheap interbank lending and also thanks to securitised mortgages. All of these hinged on the notion that house prices wouldn't plummet. Now they need a period of time with low or zero interest on existing debts to allow the credit system to catch up with the decade of oversupply of credit. There is that much debt around the BoE is eager not to see the interest on that debt become a problem which would push borrowers into bankruptcy, repossession or fire sales in huge numbers.
There isn't going to be much lending regardless of rates and it's pie in the sky if Chancellor Brown thinks banks will return to 2007 levels of lending. Yes the cuts might impact interbank lending rates but lenders have had their fingers well and truly burned with both lending to other banks and to their customers. As house prices continue to slide banks will be even more unwilling to lend.
It won't help people with fixed rate mortgages, it won't help people who rent and it punishes those of us with savings.
Johnny Vodka
04-12-2008, 13:39
Pretty rubbish if you're a sensible person on a fixed rate mortgage, who pays off their credit card in full every month and has an ISA.
pyrogena
04-12-2008, 13:41
it won't help people who rent and it punishes those of us with savings.
Oh, more joy.
I'm going to become a loan shark. However, my rates will be a respectable 6.9% APR and I won't remove people's legs.
LiviLion
04-12-2008, 13:41
Our mortgage with Nationwide is collered at 2.97% but I'll need to check my key facts leaflet as they may have not explained that like the Halifax. Though we are pretty happy as our tracker is 0.18% above base rate.
It's quite clearly documented in a number of places on the nationwide paperwork (including the KFI) that there is a collar in place so no point in even trying.
I remember discussing this with the adviser and saying 'interest rates wont go that low anyway'.
Never mind I'm paying 0.06% *below* base on my main mortgage 2 year tracker so only 2.69% on that mortgage after today and my conservatory mortgage is a lifetime tracker at I think 0.29% above base so only 3.04% on that one. Still a massive saving for me compared to 3 month ago which I am stashing away in my eSavings account.
me too. savers are subsidising borrowing now out of their own pocket as inflation is higher than interest. Seriously wondering if just withdrawing it would be safer, already been through the iceland fiasco with no access to my money for a few months. is it worth that risk again to earn up to 2% interest?!
This is an interesting point.
I think everyone would agree that those with savings need a bit of diversity, its harder to predict whats happening in the next few months; never mind years.
With this in mind, do learned folk here think Euro accounts are starting to look more attractive? I can only see additional pressure on the pound. Isn't it in danger of becoming a marginalised currency alongside the dollar and euro ?
I'm happy for those responsible people with mortgages who can get some extra breathing room (really, I am...not for those that stretched themselves beyond what they could afford) - however these cuts in interest rates are starting to really **** me off.
As someone with no mortgage but with savings each time the interest rate gets cut, I take a cut. I don't have mega millions but I'm trying to save up my money and I'm now very grumpy. :mad:
I'm in the same boat. Not too hacked off yet as most of my savings are for a deposit on a mortgage (one day...) so as long as house prices continue to fall I won't be in a bad position.
Need to start looking around for some different savings accounts though - Barclays ISA rates (which were never the best to begin with) are pretty shocking at the moment... 2.3% and that was before today's rate cut :gag:
campdave
04-12-2008, 14:28
Pretty rubbish if you're a sensible person on a fixed rate mortgage, who pays off their credit card in full every month and has an ISA.
Swings and roundabout though isn't it? Last year when interest rates were going up, they were the ones who looked in the stronger position. Currently I'm fortunate to be on a tracker, but circumstances may be very different over the remainder of the term.
At The Gates
04-12-2008, 14:41
I actually think it might be better to spend say several thousands of my savings on scratch cards and the lottery each month in an attempt to earn more money than the pitiful savings rates. Got to be worth a punt haha. And if i lose all my money i can declare myself bankrupt and get a load of help from the government. Win win.
Dave h-j
04-12-2008, 14:44
Pretty rubbish if you're a sensible person on a fixed rate mortgage, who pays off their credit card in full every month and has an ISA.
But sensible people don't play to have an exciting life surely, they do it for a safe life. And you have to expect lower returns for playing it safe.
Thing could well have been different and those with a fixed rate and an ISA could have been laughing..
I remember my first mortgage in 1998, 6.19% fixed rate for 5 years + 1 year tie in. 9 months later the base rate was at 5% and I was paying over the odds...
If you have a fixed rate, than now might be a good time to switch from savings to paying off any higher rate debts..
pyrogena
04-12-2008, 15:11
I actually think it might be better to spend say several thousands of my savings on scratch cards and the lottery each month in an attempt to earn more money than the pitiful savings rates. Got to be worth a punt haha. And if i lose all my money i can declare myself bankrupt and get a load of help from the government. Win win.
CJ - can you work the odds out on this please? I'm rather tempted myself!
Pretty rubbish if you're a sensible person on a fixed rate mortgage
Nah - these 'sensible' people took the decision that they were more comfortable locking in their payments at a level they knew they could cope with, month on month. Or, at worst, at a level that they expected to be able to cope with.
In most cases a 3% hike in rates could be unaffordable, so the 'safe' option of a fixed rate was taken.
That a 3% fall has come along is neither here nor there - the 'sensible' folk should hopefully still have a roof over their heads at a cost they knew/expected they could afford.
Sammy709Sony930
04-12-2008, 15:33
I'm a saver and a bit hacked off.
When you put your money on deposit it is meant to be safe (Icesave anyone?) and the only risk is that the interest doesn't keep up with inflation.
Well, the second is now a certainty!
Still tempted to pull the lot out, buy some shares (especially RBS, as I think they are looking "cheap") and keep the rest under the mattress.
But sensible people don't play to have an exciting life surely, they do it for a safe life. And you have to expect lower returns for playing it safe.
Thing could well have been different and those with a fixed rate and an ISA could have been laughing..
I remember my first mortgage in 1998, 6.19% fixed rate for 5 years + 1 year tie in. 9 months later the base rate was at 5% and I was paying over the odds...
If you have a fixed rate, than now might be a good time to switch from savings to paying off any higher rate debts..
I fixed for 10 years back in July, fixed for the security, knowing I could afford that amount on my modest salary. What worries me now though is that if I lose my job, the interest would only be paid at the very low rate, nowhere near my actual rate. Oh well, I know rates can rise as well as fall during my term.
Still tempted to pull the lot out, buy some shares (especially RBS, as I think they are looking "cheap")
You should have done that two weeks or so ago - you'd be sitting on a 50%+ return today if you had. And that's suitably 'inflation busting' right?
neilalford
04-12-2008, 15:37
When you put your money on deposit it is meant to be safe (Icesave anyone?) and the only risk is that the interest doesn't keep up with inflation.
Well, the second is now a certainty!
Not neccessarily, sounds like inflation is going to fall pretty rapidly now, there's even been talk of deflation.
Annoyingly, I'm on a fixed rate mortgage (5.75%) but it comes to an end early next year, so I'm hoping for some good deals by that point, at least my saving are fixed for a while as well though.
Sammy709Sony930
04-12-2008, 15:38
You should have done that two weeks or so ago - you'd be sitting on a 50%+ return today if you had. And that's suitably 'inflation busting' right?
I saw that! 50p to 75p is indeed 50%. This thing came from over £5 to 50p in the last year, and with the government backing, they have got to be a good bet.
I saw that! 50p to 75p is indeed 50%. This thing came from over £5 to 50p in the last year, and with the government backing, they have got to be a good bet.
c41p to c64p was what I had in mind.
Still, I know plenty of people who thought the shares represented value on their way down and know plenty of folk who piled in around £2 as "they won't be this cheap for long". They'll be nursing a c66% paper loss now of their capital now then.
Which is why they say "Man who pick bottom, get smelly finger." They be clever.
The recent offer was at 65.5 which is what the government (ie us) own around 58% of RBS at.
Not neccessarily, sounds like inflation is going to fall pretty rapidly now, there's even been talk of deflation.
consumer electronics are going up next year due to £ being so weak. sony have increased trade prices dramatically, others set to follow. this has for the last few years been the one thing keeping official numbers of inflation lower than they were felt while food and fuel rocketed.
i cant see deflation occuring, and if it does i dont see why its a problem if it corrects the inflation that has occured this year above the target 2.5%.
farmroad38
04-12-2008, 15:48
I bought RBS shares at 108p, and indeed thought they wouldn't go much lower! They've recovered a little, but I've still got a long way to go before I even get back what I invested.
I bought RBS shares at 108p, and indeed thought they wouldn't go much lower! They've recovered a little, but I've still got a long way to go before I even get back what I invested.
Surely if there was value at 108p, there's MASSIVE value at c63p? You should be selling everything you own and piling in, right? ;)
i cant see deflation occuring, and if it does i dont see why its a problem if it corrects the inflation that has occured this year above the target 2.5%.
Deflation is a problem.
People are barely spending now, they'd spend even less if they knew that tomorrow's price is going to be cheaper than today's. So less demand all round. Lower demand will mean lower prices. A vicious spiral that is difficult to break.
Sammy709Sony930
04-12-2008, 15:57
Surely if there was value at 108p, there's MASSIVE value at c63p? You should be selling everything you own and piling in, right? ;)
Pound cost averaging;)
I see Halifax have an option to fix your ISA for 1 year at 5%. This might be worth a punt too.
farmroad38
04-12-2008, 15:58
Surely if there was value at 108p, there's MASSIVE value at c63p? You should be selling everything you own and piling in, right? ;)
It suddenly dawned on me that I knew absolutely nothing about share dealing, and maybe I should just stick my money in the bank :lol:
I was very tempted to buy more when the were around 40p to lower the average price, but I got cold feet!
They saw you coming and you've been stung.
I'm on BoE base minus 0.4% (with no minimum rate). :thumbs:
Yes but that is not for life I presume? Mine is for life of mortgage!
Glad to see another drop. Not hurt the pound too much yet either. Hopefully they will pass this on.
Sorry if posted but Halifax not imposing the collar cut
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7764543.stm
The Halifax mortgage lender says it will pass on any more cuts in bank rate to half a million existing borrowers who have one of its tracker deals.
The bank has a clause in its mortgage agreements which says it can chose to stop cutting its interest rates once the bank rate falls below 3%.
But the Halifax now says it will not in fact do this.
The Bank of England, as widely expected, has announced it is cutting its bank rate from 3% to 2%.
Now i think only Nationwide are left, and have a guess who i have a mortgage with :D
I dont have an issue with the 2.75% as i knew about this before signing up
but i could only hope
http://www.100mortgages.org/20081202/fsa-warns-nationwide-halifax-to-ignore-collar-clause/
Spooky_uk
04-12-2008, 18:09
Sorry if posted but Halifax not imposing the collar cut
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7764543.stm
thats what I read earlier in the day on the bbc website but having just got home the news ticker on BBC News 24 is stating latest news - Halifax not passing on full cut to tracker customers only 1/4% ... :?:
AdamBrunt
04-12-2008, 19:29
I wouldn't pay too much heed ATM to what the Halifax are saying. Their t&c's clearly state a tracker rate can not go below 3% but mine is currently on 2.94%
Hopefully they'll go with their original statement ... if so, 1.94% here I come baby :)
Excellent News for me, and everyone else on a Nationwide mortgage.
Nationwide has followed the lead of its rival Halifax and said it would pass on interest rate cut to its tracker mortgage customers in full.
The building society's tracker deal contains a collar, stating once interest rates fall below 2.75% it no longer has to pass on the reduction.
But the group said following the 1% fall in the Bank of England base rate it would be waiving the clause.
http://www.teletext.co.uk/news/national/01a3197ed7cc2b78f2f490279f829ba7/Nationwide+passes+on+rate+cut.aspx
AdamBrunt
04-12-2008, 21:47
thats what I read earlier in the day on the bbc website but having just got home the news ticker on BBC News 24 is stating latest news - Halifax not passing on full cut to tracker customers only 1/4% ... :?:
Are you sure it said their tracker customers or was just referring to their SVR ?
Excellent News for me, and everyone else on a Nationwide mortgage.
http://www.teletext.co.uk/news/national/01a3197ed7cc2b78f2f490279f829ba7/Nationwide+passes+on+rate+cut.aspx
Not according to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7764690.stm)
However, customers on tracker deals with the Nationwide will see only a 0.25 percentage point cut in interest on their repayments.
That was earlier on they first come out to say they wont cut but i asume aftre pressure they now have decided to cut it afterall.
The time on the bbc was 5pm. But only teletext are reporting it atm.
Now also here
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jFLnOI26q8CyQDtT91M32Rrx_8HA
More detailed interview with the CE of Nationwide on the tracker mortgages
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/3551904/Interest-rates-cut-Nationwide-waives-collar-for-all-tracker-mortgage-customers.html
:)
thats what I read earlier in the day on the bbc website but having just got home the news ticker on BBC News 24 is stating latest news - Halifax not passing on full cut to tracker customers only 1/4% ... :?:
As far as I can see, the 1% cut is being applied to tracker customers, but not those on variable rates (who will only get 0.25% cut).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7766364.stm
Could be wrong though.
mr starface
05-12-2008, 11:57
Great news for me and the others on trackers (I'm with Nationwide).
Means mortgage payments will have dropped by something like £200 since we took out tracker out in August!
And to think I basically just chose a tracker over fixed rate on a whim! Would be kicking myself now if I hadnt!
AdminSpod
05-12-2008, 15:22
I Just checked - Barclays and Woolwich don't use collars, so my Barclays-Woolwich Openplan mortgage should get the full interest rate cut. :clap:
It is students who are not going to benefit from the rate drops - their interest rate is calculated just once a year and is meant to reflect inflation only. Their 3.8% rate was set in September and will carry through to August no matter what the base rate does.
DVDWotcha
15-12-2008, 11:54
All this talk of trackers is all very well, but what proportion of mortgage holders have trackers, suspect it's not that many. Most people will be on SVRs.
This is I think where the danger lies for the economy. If the banks don't pass on the rate cuts for SVR then the economy sees no benefit from the BOE rate cut. However it does see the full force of that cut on exchange rate as foreign investors pull their money out.
The government say they don't target forex, they target inflation. But to be quite honest as a net importer, I think they have it backwards. Or at least should have the flexibility to consider both.
douglasb
15-12-2008, 12:01
Presumably as the £ weakens and imports become more expensive, inflation goes up?
Presumably as the £ weakens and imports become more expensive, inflation goes up?
We buy less imports, or just target the ones we need.
Imports of goods are bought I think 6+ months in advance at a plan-exchange-rate, so increases are probably a few months away. Foreign manufacturers still have to complete against local produce/goods.
Makes exporting better for us (though we don't export much anymore) and makes wages cheaper for international companies.
So swings and roundabouts.
DVDWotcha
15-12-2008, 13:20
Presumably as the £ weakens and imports become more expensive, inflation goes up?
Exactly, so simply targeting inflation is meaningless. If the pound decreases in value inflation on imported good increases. As a nation our Trade deficit stands at about 3.9billion (we import far more than we export), I'd make maintaining value of the pound a key objective as it has knock on effects on inflation on imports.
Info.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nugget.asp?ID=199
Take oil as an example. The drop in oil prices should have a major negative effect on inflation, but the drop of £ vs $ will remove some of that benefit.
Anyway, point is as banks are not passing on the rate cuts for SVR, I can't see the logic in BOE rate cut to stimulate spending.
AdamBrunt
15-12-2008, 22:29
The Halifax come through again ... confirmation arrived in the post today, from Jan 1st my tracker's IR will be 1.94% (a monthly payment of £610 compared to £810 just 2 months ago) :)
Anyway, point is as banks are not passing on the rate cuts for SVR, I can't see the logic in BOE rate cut to stimulate spending.
OI! Less of that until I have paid off my mortgage, if you don't mind:p
Yeah, some of us are on BofE trackers so want more cuts from a selfish point of view :D
DVDWotcha
16-12-2008, 11:21
Selfish swine ;)
Looks like they are pushing for another 1% cut in Jan...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7784939.stm
Other than the small number of people on trackers, I don't think it'll do a damn thing to most mortgage rates.
You tracker people have a duty to splash the cash ! :D
I am splashing my cash on my mortgage offset account :D It is looking quite health at the moment after just 6 months.
Grandmaster
16-12-2008, 17:23
I'm struggling to see the point of lowering rates still further. The only ones I can see benefiting are the banks. Have I made an error?
Not really, unless LiBOR lowers then the chances of anyone at all benefiting really are very little.
Bapapapa
16-12-2008, 18:24
EDIT - I'm not sure if they are now.. :suspect:
Bapapapa
16-12-2008, 18:31
Anyway, point is as banks are not passing on the rate cuts for SVR, I can't see the logic in BOE rate cut to stimulate spending.:thinking:
I'm on a SVR (discounted) with Natwest (RBS) and they have passed on all the cuts in full so far - albeit the latest one will apparently only be 0.75% rather than 1.0% but I've yet to have written confirmation of that.
Well the US has slashed its down to 0-0.25% and will be this for some time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7786282.stm
DVDWotcha
17-12-2008, 16:55
And the pound still getting a hammering over the suggestion of further cuts.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7787239.stm
You know Brown should have saved the gold reserves so that he could buy cheap £'s. The fool went and blew it all.
DVDWotcha
17-12-2008, 16:57
:thinking:
I'm on a SVR (discounted) with Natwest (RBS) and they have passed on all the cuts in full so far - albeit the latest one will apparently only be 0.75% rather than 1.0% but I've yet to have written confirmation of that.
I'm with The OneAccount (also RBS) and we got 1% of the 1.5% cut and still no word on the recent 1% cut. I expect we'll get half a percent if lucky.
KennyVader
17-12-2008, 18:10
They were saying on the radio earlier that they could make a further emergency cut any day, it doesn't necessarily have to wait until the next official meeting in January.
However I'm not sure they would with next week being Christmas week, can't see too many people rushing to buy houses or set up new business deals after Friday until New Year is out of the way.
I'd like another cut please :)
Still not spending though Mr. Brown!
put rates up by 0.5% in jan, lower inflation (import inflation is going to be very high soon unless the pound gains some strength, and we import almost everything. this should help the pound gain slightly). it wont make any negative difference to availability of home loans, and affordability - if people are basing being able to afford a home on current rates then they wont stand a chance when we have recovered unless they have had a considerable pay rise.
welshmatt
18-12-2008, 10:15
I'm with The OneAccount (also RBS) and we got 1% of the 1.5% cut and still no word on the recent 1% cut. I expect we'll get half a percent if lucky.
Ive been on the A&L SVR for the past 15 months and they have passed on every rate cut so far (mortgage dropped from £540 to £408 during this time). Havent heard anything regarding the most recent cut yet.
I'm with The OneAccount (also RBS) and we got 1% of the 1.5% cut and still no word on the recent 1% cut. I expect we'll get half a percent if lucky.
I have the same account as you. Had a letter yesterday. The full 1% cut was passed on to us.
I am splashing my cash on my mortgage offset account :D It is looking quite health at the moment after just 6 months.
:thumbs:
DVDWotcha
19-12-2008, 11:11
I have the same account as you. Had a letter yesterday. The full 1% cut was passed on to us.
Good to know that DaveH although it's unusual for OneAccount to send a letter out mid month. Usually send it the day before the cut which is usually 1st of the month.
Did they say when the cut would come into effect ?
(I've not had a letter yet)
The One Account 1% drop comes in from 31st Dec 2008. My letter was dated 12th December. Maybe your letter ended up in the north pole.
Not really, unless LiBOR lowers then the chances of anyone at all benefiting really are very little.
Dropped to under 3% now so hopefully there should be some good long term fixed rate offers coming through in the next few months.
just spotted that Northern Rock have passed on 0.5% of the cut on their SVR
what with my fixed rate deal finishing in couple of months and my LTV not looking particularly attractive, my new rate won't be far off what on I'm on now
bit of a relief
DVDWotcha
23-12-2008, 12:37
Trade figures looking bad for the UK.
There were also trade figures released, with the current account deficit coming in at £7.7bn between July and September, compared with £6.4bn in the previous quarter.
Current account is the difference between a country's total exports of goods and services and its total imports of them. It excludes financial transactions.
The deficit was smaller than expected, "but this will probably still leave a current account deficit of 3% to 4% of GDP this year, so any relief for the ailing pound is likely to be mild," said Jonathan Loynes at Capital Economics.
£'s gonna take a hammering if they drop rates again.
We've been running a trade deficit for 15+ years, so entirely expected so already priced in.
AdamBrunt
02-01-2009, 16:51
Potentially bad news for people with Nationwide Tracker Mortgages as they have announced they won't be passing on any more rate cuts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7807813.stm)
DVDWotcha
05-01-2009, 11:54
Even more reason not to drop rates again. Some sites I've read mention real concern the UK gov is simply borrowing too much (180bill this year is predicted) and it's creating it's own debt bubble.
I got confirmation that my mortgage has dropped to 2.75% from Jan 1. No sign of extra drops not being passed on at the moment, but can't imagine they would be keen to do so.
Spooky_uk
05-01-2009, 12:11
halifax have already stated upfront that they will pass on any further cuts to their tracker customers so here's hoping.
is it this thursday they meet again to decide?
It is this Thursday. Another